Featured A Case for the Post-Tribulation Rapture

I thought I'd post this since there has been some discussion lately regarding eschtology and some questions concerning the post-tribulational view of the rapture. This is long and i know many here (me included) have the attention span of a goldfish... but please press on and read. Check the scriptures.

First let me clarify what the “tribulation” is.

This period of time is NOT some future 7 year period of time where God’s wrath will be indiscriminately poured out on the planet. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that pegs a period of time known as the tribulation to a 7 year period. Of course many will jump to Daniel 9 and try to say that the last week of the 70 Weeks prophecy is the tribulation, but that’s not true and a VERY recent development in theology. Until the rise of dispensationalism most theologians and preachers (Calvin, Luther, Henry, and Wesley just to name a few) understood the entire 70 weeks to have been completed in the past; either when the Gospel went out to the Gentiles after Stephen’s stoning (My belief) or when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD.

The word tribulation is found 22 times in the King James Version, only 3 of those instances are in the Old Testament. 18 of those New Testament references are Strong's G2347 – thlipsis; with the final occurrence being Strong's G2346 – thlibō (which - from my limited understanding of Greek – is the verb form of thlipsis). These words literally mean pressure (or pressing) and metaphorically are used to refer to persecution and affliction. The word is never used in scripture as a synonym for God’s wrath (With the possible exception of Romans 2:9). Further, thlipsis is translated in the KJB 24 other times variously as affliction, trouble, anguish, persecution and burdened.

So what IS the tribulation?

Clearly the word tribulation is used solely as a description of persecution and suffering and in every instance but one it refers specifically to the suffering that God’s people endure. Of course most if not all realize this and agree with it, EXCEPT regarding THE tribulation, which is always the term used for the supposed 7 year period of time during the eschaton when God judges the world. For some reason they consider that time to be “special.” But look at the gospel accounts and see what did Jesus ACTUALLY say?

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The parallel accounts in Mark 13 and Luke 21 are similar, though Luke omits the term tribulation entirely. Jesus clearly doesn’t rename an age (and certainly not a 7 year period) “The Tribulation” He merely says that this time will be a period of “great tribulation”, in other words there will be greater than usual persecution and suffering.

OK so now that that is out of the way let’s look at the timing of the rapture:

1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is without a doubt the most commonly used verse to support the rapture. However, most fail to realize this is the ONLY text that discusses the rapture. While many other verses speak of our “gathering together” to Christ or in some other way refer to the rapture, none of them actually mention the event. Only 1 Thess 4 specifically mentions the “catching up” of the saints to meet the Lord in the air. That catching up is the rapture. Without this verse no one would assume our gathering to Christ would be in this way because all the other “rapture verses” just speak of a gathering together.

So when does Paul mention this “catching up” will occur? Verse 16 clearly says that the dead in Christ will rise first so this catching up occurs right after the righteous dead are resurrected. When does that occur? Revelation 20 places the First resurrection, or the resurrection of the righteous dead immediately AFTER the physical, visible return of Christ. So the flow of events is – tribulation>Second Advent (in the clouds)>resurrection of the righteous dead>rapture of living saints.


(as an aside, this verse also totally destroys the idea of a silent, secret, rapture that is so common in pre-trib circles. This is not silent, if anything it is one of the noisiest passages in all of scripture)

Other verses that allude to the rapture are even more obvious:

1 Corinthians 15: 50-52 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

When will we “all be changed”? At the LAST trump! Not the trumpet before 7 more trumpets later on! Look at the last of the series of judgments in Revelation that are illustrated with trumpets:

Revelation 11:15-18 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

At this seventh (last) trumpet sounding voices in Heaven declare that the kingdoms of earth are now the kingdoms of God and Christ and that it is now the time of God’s judgment (wrath) and the time for the dead to be judged! This corresponds perfectly with 1 Corinthians 15. The last trumpet sounds, the Kingdom comes in physical form and the dead are raised.

Of course some will object because this is only Revelation 11! “This can’t be the end,” they say “there are still the 7 bowl/vial judgments!” This belief comes from the error of understanding the book of Revelation as being entirely chronological. But if that were so, then please explain to me how the world ends at the end of Revelation 6, here in chapter 11 and again in chapter 19? Revelation isn’t chronological; it is a series of visions that are all pictures of the same event (the eschaton) from multiple “views”.

Also, the words of the Lord confirm the timing of His coming:

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Want to know what two words in Latin are used in Matthew 24:29 to describe the timing? post tribulationem

 

I used to be a dispensational pre-trib pre-mill too... I've since made quite a turn around and the scriptures make sooo much more sense now!

1. I believe that the entire church age is the age of tribulation. It will get worse as we move towards the return of Christ though culminating in "great tribulation". In the Olivet Discourse in Matt 24 Jesus explains the period of great tribulation and starts off describing events that are obvious prophecies pointing toward the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. He says that the gospel must be preached to all nations during this time and that the saints will be persecuted and false christs will appear. He then says "immediately after that tribulation" there will be signs in heaven and finally His appearing. All these events perfectly parallel Revelation 6, which to me indicates that this period of tribulation stretches from the sending out of the gospel all the way to the Second Advent.

2. Regarding Antichrist and the false prophet I am currently going back and forth between two views. One that there will be an end times singular Antichrist that will make war against the believers during the "great tribulation" period. If this is the case then his reign is likely the 3 1/2 years referred to in revelation. At this moment however I lean more towards the historic reformed interpretation which held that the office of the pope is Antichrist and his reign is not 1260 literal days, but 1260 years keeping with the day=year trend in prophecy. Of course it could be a combination with the pope being a type of Antichrist. Regardless the idea that the antichrist is a political ruler is faulty since Paul said that he (Antichrist, the man of sin) would exalt himself "in the temple of God." The church is now the temple of God, so somehow the Antichrist (in what ever form) will rise from within Christianity.

3. I would put the millennium shortly after the return of Christ. Historic premillennialism.

4. The resurrection of the unsaved, I believe, is after the millennium after Satan is released and allowed to again rebel against Christ. Revelation 20:7-15

I'm by no means an expert on this at all, for that I would encourage you to look up George Ladd. I don't totally agree with everything he said but he was probably one of the best proponents of historic premillennialism of the last several hundred years. Here is a great site for some of his teachings. http://articles.ochristian.com/preacher75-1.shtml

 

I think the are concurrent in some way. I believe this because if you look at the end of each set of judgments the world as we know it ends.

In Revelation 6:12-17, at the end (6th) of the seals we have - the sun being darkened and the moon turning to "blood", the stars falling from heaven, and the skies "departing as a scroll", a great earthquake that moves every island and mountain out if its place and all the people of the earth trembling and running "from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

In Revelation 11:15-19, at the end (7th) of the trumpets we have - "lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." And we also have the kingdoms of the world being taken over by God and Christ, the time of God's wrath against the nations and the resurrection and reward of the righteous.

In Revelation 16:17-21, at the end (7th) of the Vial/bowls we have - "voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake" the island and mountains are all moved by this quake, great hail falling and a voice from Heaven saying "It is done!"

Look how incredibly similar these all are! Each one has incredible similarities to each other, so much so that I think these are all clearly talking about the same event the appearing of Christ. And this is even more apparent when we compare it to what Christ said at the Olivet discourse in Matt 24:29:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Christ specifically says that after "that tribulation" (the persecution of the church) there will be signs showing that the second coming is at hand - There will be great signs in the sky with the sun and moon darkened (which correlates with Revelation 6) the stars will fall (Rev 6 for sure, maybe 11 and 16 also) and the powers of heavens shall be shaken (Rev 6, 11, and 16 all have some sort of violent atmospheric events).

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So after these events occur a sign announcing the return of Jesus will appear. I have no idea what that sign is but it must be obvious since when it appears all the world will mourn. This is also consistent with Rev 6 where the people of the earth are terrified and try to hide anywhere they can from the glorious return of Christ!

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Then after Jesus appears in the clouds, His angels will be sent out with the sound of the trumpet (either the 7th trumpet judgment or one immediately after) to gather His people together in the rapture/resurrection.

Now - how they all relate to each other, I truly don't know. Are the 2nd seal, 2nd trumpet, and 2nd vial all occurring simultaneously? I have no idea. But I am convinced that these judgments are not confined to a 7 year period and are not chronological with one after another (seals, then trumpets, then vials).

I hope that answers your question!

 

Very nice! In a similar way I grewup under solidly dispensational teaching. However it was my own study that showed me the faults of the system. Now I am Historic Pre-mill also and my new pastor is as well. And like you I see some good in A-mill but can't quite make the change. Maybe I will one day, but I'm not convinced yet.

Ladd's work has been a great help to me. Once I realized I was leaning towards post-tribulationism I Googled it, looking for ANYONE respected that had written about that view. I found Ladd and promptly ordered his "A Theology of the New Testament." Great book by a great man of God!

 

Well that is the claim of dispensationalism anyway. They claim literal interpretation but choose to not interpret Paul literally when he says that the church is the "Israel of God" and that "not all Israel is Israel"... or when Jesus says that He will gather the elect "immediately after the tribulation."

Anywho, I'll have to check out that book. Thanks!

 

Reread Matthew 24 where Jesus says "great tribulation." He says NOTHING about it being a set period of time where God's wrath is poured out. He only says that it is a time of great tribulation or in other words great persecution. I agree that if we start with a faulty understanding of this everything else will be off, the question is which one of us is off? You haven't used ANY scripture to support your view. Go back and actually read the scripture I posted in the OP.

Seriously? After all that I posted and all the scripture that was referenced you resort to this? And I don't care if you think I know what I'm talking about since you are incapable of using scripture to support your view.