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Featured The breath of God...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Mar 12, 2013.

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  1. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I never gave credit to the devil what God can do! THat is blasphemy!
     
    #21 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You gave the credit to yourself, and not to God. What is the difference.

    "Look what I can do!! I can speak with groanings which CANNOT be uttered."

    Only the Holy Spirit can do that. Only God can do that. You say you witnessed that which cannot be done by man. That is blasphemy, Awaken.
    That is blasphemy. Claiming to do that which only God can do. Only the Holy Spirit CAN utter things that man cannot utter!!
     
    #22 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
  3. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Maybe if you would dig a little deeper in the Greek you might come to understand that a little better!
    "The Holy Spirit maketh intercession for us in groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech." Articulate speech refers to our regular kind of speech. Groanings can also include praying with other tongues.

    This is not something the Holy Spirit does apart from you. Rather, the Holy Spirit helps YOU pray in groanings.

    We have discussed this before! If the Holy Spirit does not need us to pray..then why pray at all. Lets just let him do ALL the praying! God uses us as willing vessels!

    Praying in the Spirit in groanings is also something the Holy Spirit does not do apart from us!
     
    #23 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  4. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    So are you calling me a devil now?
     
    #24 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Did I say that?
    Don't put words in my mouth.
    Maybe you should look the word "blasphemy" up in a dictionary before you make hasty posts.

    I'll do it for you
    And that is what you have done
     
    #25 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2013
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't most of the modern day Charasmatic movement though take the doctrines and works of demons and attribute the Holy spriit to be behind all of that?

    What would you call that?
     
    #26 Yeshua1, Mar 13, 2013
  7. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    YOu accuse me unjustly!
     
    #27 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  8. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Be careful! The Bible speaks louder than your unbelief!
     
    #28 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Please don't add to the Word of God; it doesn't say that.
    It says: "In groanings which cannot be uttered." They cannot be uttered by human vocal chords. It is very evident here. You don't want to believe the Bible, and are attributing your human activity to God. That is blasphemous.
    Again, adding to the Word of God. Tongues is not mentioned anywhere in the passage. It is speaking of the intercessory work of the Spirit. It has nothing to do with mankind. I suppose next you will claim to take the place of Christ seated on the right hand of the throne of God, and put your words in his mouth as he intercedes for believers!! What blasphemy is this! You cannot do the work of God.
    The Holy Spirit has a ministry in intercession.
    Christ has a ministry in intercession.
    And you claim to take their place; claiming to have an ability that mankind cannot have--groanings which cannot be uttered. Yes, that is blasphemy: insulting God, and claiming to do that which only God can do.
    That is not what the passage says:
    Romans 8:26 And in like manner the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;
    27 and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
    --Twice it says that the Holy Spirit Himself is the One that intercedes on our behalf. He is the one that prays. He is the one that makes groanings which you cannot make or utter! Therefore you are claiming to do something only God can do. That is blasphemy.

    Verse 26:
    The Spirit helps our infirmity.
    We don't know how we ought to pray, and therefore he helps us.
    BUT, the Spirit HIMSELF makes intercession FOR US with groanings which CANNOT be uttered.
    WHY? He is the one who makes intercession for the saints.
    WHY? It is according to the will of God.

    Mankind cannot make these sounds.
    We can pray, just not in tongues, and especially not in something that is impossible for mankind to say, something reserved only for God; something that is the ministry of God alone.
    The Holy Spirit will bring to your mind things you ought to pray for if you ask him. He said he will help you; he didn't say he would let you do His work.
    Where does the Bible say that you can do the things God does, and He allows you to take the position and ministry of God. That is blasphemy.
     
    #29 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
  10. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I have only said I can do what God says I can! So quit turning this into a name calling debate..nothing is accoplished with this childish stuff! I have never blasphemed God. I do not deny His power! ANd I do not give satan credit for something God does!

    If the Holy Spirit prays the perfect prayer without needing us...then why don't you quit praying! Just let Him do all the praying for you?
     
    #30 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2013
  11. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    So you accept the words out of the dictionary that you approve of and it fits your interpretation? Maybe you would like to look up manifestation!

    I have no problem with the dictionary! NOWHERE DID I DO WHAT YOU HAVE ACCUSED!
     
    #31 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The above is from the Merriam Webster dictionary.
    It has nothing to do with giving Satan credit for something God does. You are getting mixed up with "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," a sin that cannot be committed any more. Even if it could that is not what I accused you of, is it?
    It is you, yourself, that is claiming to do what only God can do.
    God, the Holy Spirit, claims that "He Himself makes groanings which cannot be uttered."
    That is a direct quoted, and you change it and say that you are the one that makes the groanings which cannot be uttered. That indeed is blasphemy.
    1. It is an act of insulting God, telling him that you have the same power and ability that he has.
    2. It is the act of claiming the attribute (intercession) of deity.
    --On both counts you have blasphemed against God.

    Where does God give you this power that he plainly says only He can do?
    Prove through Scripture that you have this power?
     
    #32 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
  13. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    You look so hard to disprove my belief that you over look and add to everything!
    I never said I could do anything outside God (without Him)! Tongues is the Holy Spirit praying/speaking through us! Period...whether in groans or another language!
     
    #33 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  14. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    DHK...we get no where debating because I am always having to defend myself of your accusations/personal attacks! Stay off me personally and stick to the scriptures!
     
    #34 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  15. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    To get back on subject of the breath of God...
    On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples in a great demonstration of supernatural power (Acts 2:1-4). There was the sound of a violent wind, visible tongues of fire, speaking in tongues, and powerful evangelism which resulted in roughly 3000 people being saved that day (Acts 2:41) and many more being saved or healed after that (Acts 2:43).

    However, there was an earlier event which needs to be examined, because it has a significant impact on how we view the baptism in the Holy Spirit If you recall, before Pentecost Jesus told the disciples that in a few days they would be "baptized" with the Holy Spirit:

    ""For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight." (Acts 1:5, 8-9)

    Immediately before Jesus ascended to heaven, He told the disciples that they will be baptized with the Holy Spirit in a few days. Now take a look at what Jesus said to the disciples on Resurrection Sunday (which was forty days earlier, according to Acts 1:3):
    "On the evening of that first day of the week [Resurrection Sunday], when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

    Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!

    Why did the disciples have two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit like that?
     
    #35 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I have expounded the Scriptures very carefully for you.
    Then I showed how you have abused them.
    You have not given any Scripture in defense or explained how Scripture fits your theology. Why is that?
     
    #36 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    They didn't. Here is what A.T. Robertson says:
    IOW, It was symbolic; a pledge of what they would receive on the Day of Pentecost.
     
    #37 DHK, Mar 13, 2013
  18. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    No, you added your interpretation! I showed what the scriptures meant in in Romans 8:26. He helps us pray out in groanings according to the perfect will of God. AGAIN, IF THE HOLY SPIRIT PRAYS THE PERFECT PRAYER AND DOES NOT NEED US TO SPEAK AT ALL..WHY PRAY? You still have not answered this question.

    Some might say, "Well, if the Holy Ghost is praying for me..He knows how to get the job done, so there is no use for me to pray"..Do you see what your interpretation could lead to?
     
    #38 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  19. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I would rather let scripture interpret scripture...not man!
     
    #39 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
  20. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Most say that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday as a partial filling in anticipation of their salvation at Pentecost, and that it was for the purpose of empowering them for their ministry (Here is a reference for you DHK.. The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.343). So the mainline view tends to be that the disciples were empowered on Resurrection Sunday and that they were saved at Pentecost.

    Others tend to say just the opposite, that the disciples were saved on Resurrection Sunday and empowered at Pentecost.

    Notice that both groups agree that somehow the disciples had two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit (first on Resurrection Sunday and then at Pentecost), and both groups agree that one of these was for spiritual empowerment and the other was when the disciples received salvation. Since the mainline and charismatic explanations are exactly opposite to one another, it is a simple matter to determine which view is more Scripturally accurate. Consider the following points:
    1. First of all, notice what the Bible says in Romans 10:9:
    "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
    While Jesus was alive, the disciples had confessed Him as Lord (John 13:13, for example). However, the disciples were not Christians at that point because they did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ (since Jesus had not yet died).

    On Resurrection Sunday, the day Christ rose from the dead, He came to the disciples in a locked room:

    "On the evening of that first day of the week [Resurrection Sunday], when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."" (John 20:19-21)

    At this point the disciples believed in the bodily resurrection of Christ, so they had received salvation.

    Therefore, when the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday, it was when they received salvation. THe breath of God was breath on them...
     
    #40 awaken, Mar 13, 2013
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