Eschatology

[kyredneck]

....To call the desire for peace in the middle east and an eventual agreement 'speculating', you're in deeper than I thought.

?????

That's EXACTLY what I'd like to see happen. Is there something non-Biblical or un-Christian with that position?

 

[webdog]

Larry, 1st thing ...from indicators, this Dispy thing is on the wain & nobodies jumpin into it anymore. It just congers up ridiculous notions to most. So their grasp on the direction that this country is going to take in the future is questionable.

And if you read your bible you are told that you are not going to know things so this hysterical emphasis on this subject matter is ridiculous.

Lastly, if you take a trip North, there is little to no interest in any of this.....frankly we joke about how crazy the religious right is about any of this...its a bad Tim Lahay paperback that plays out none too well. And I am not participating in foolishness.

So your earlier lack of interest suddenly took a sharp turn, eh?

 

[webdog]

?????

That's EXACTLY what I'd like to see happen. Is there something non-Biblical or un-Christian with that position?

When you want to discuss things actually said and not made up you know where to find me. You claimed I was speculating when I said the push for peace in the middle east was happening. Try following along.

 

[kyredneck]

No, your 'speculating' that Obama being there is somehow connected with this fictional character AntiChrist is what I was referring to.

 

[webdog]

No, your 'speculating' that Obama being there is somehow connected with this fictional character AntiChrist is what I was referring to.

Of course you can supply the quote where I said anything remotely like that. No wonder your eschatology is all off, your reading comprehension is atrocious.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So your earlier lack of interest suddenly took a sharp turn, eh?

No.... I always had a lack of interest. Its the most foolish thing a Christian can do, to speculate when the lord tells ya to be at peace. All of your answers serve to confirm this. Its akin to fighting with one another on the correct bible translation when the emphasis should be on just studying it.

If I have to declare anything, it will be that I am a Pan Millennial. It will all pan out in the end! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Herald]

To call dispensationalism heresy is as stupid as it gets.

I am in agreement with webdog. I am an amillennialist, and have strong disagreements with dispensationalism. But there are many godly dispensationalists who love the gospel. I will call them wrong on this issue, but I will not throw the H-bomb at them.

 

[kyredneck]

Of course you can supply the quote where I said anything remotely like that. No wonder your eschatology is all off, your reading comprehension is atrocious.

You said:

Exactly. If anything Obama's trip has shown the world including a veiled Israel are pushing for what the Antichrist wants, a phony peace treaty.

Is that 'remotely' enough for you?

Really webdog, you're a grown man with wife and children, a family to think of. Drop this fictional 'last days' fantasy with AC, the third temple, Armageddon, the Great Tribulation, etc., and stop dwelling in the negative, try to think positive and have some hope with what we have in front of us. Teach your children to have hope, not despair. Accept that Christ reigns now and His will is going to be done, always. You're no prophet, prophecies are not given in the Bible so that you can be a prophet, it's all going to pan out just the way it's supposed to. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

 

[Herald]

Used to be eschatology was a 'benign' or 'non-essential' branch of theology. With the advent of the dispensationalists during the 19th century and their heretical teaching that the Church must be unconditionally subservient to DNA Israel, eschatology can no longer be considered as 'benign', the extreme dangers of it should be obvious to all with objective minds.

Not every dispensationalist goes to the extreme of John Hagee, but I will grant you that dispensationalism, as a system, can go to that extreme.

 

[Herald]

What are your views?

This is one area in which I am undecided, except for one thing: I am definitely NOT a dispensationalist. I believe the church is the center of history and God's purpose, not the nation of Israel.

To answer your question, I am an amillennialist. I believe God has had one called out people since the line of Seth. I disagree with my dispensationalist brethren who see the New Covenant as a future promise including national Israel. The New Covenant is made with the spiritual seed of Abraham, the Church. I do not see a future for national Israel in prophecy. Awaiting on the prophetic clock is the return of Christ and the final judgment. The only eschatological view on this board I consider to be Hersey is full blown preterism.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I'm in agreement and I will add I hold an Amillennial view.

I am leaning that way more and more, I think.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

To call dispensationalism heresy is as stupid as it gets.

Although it began as a system with John Nelson Darby about 200 years ago.

Supersessionism was the predominant teaching of the church until the rise of dispensationalism in the 19th century.

 

[Herald]

I am leaning that way more and more, I think.

I am not criticizing, it is just odd to run into a non-RCC amillennialist who is not a Covenant Theologian and a Calvinist. Not unheard of, but highly unusual.

 

[kyredneck]

Used to be eschatology was a 'benign' or 'non-essential' branch of theology. With the advent of the dispensationalists during the 19th century and their heretical teaching that the Church must be unconditionally subservient to DNA Israel, eschatology can no longer be considered as 'benign', the extreme dangers of it should be obvious to all with objective minds.

Not every dispensationalist goes to the extreme of John Hagee, but I will grant you that dispensationalism, as a system, can go to that extreme.

Maybe you need to rethink, IMO, on the whole, it HAS gone to that extreme already:

"...Christian Zionism is essentially Christian support for Zionism. Zionism is a political system based on ethnic exclusivity giving Jews preferential political rights which are denied to Palestinians. The United Nations has defined Zionism as a form of racism and apartheid. Nevertheless, in the words of Grace Halsell the essential message of the Christian Zionist is this: “every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.”

The Significance of the Christian Zionist Movement

Estimates as to the size of the movement as a whole vary considerably. While critics like Crowley claim, ‘At least one out of every 10 Americans is a devotee’, that is between ‘25 to 30 million’, Christian Zionists such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell claim weekly access to 100 million sympathetic Americans. What ever the true figure, all are agreed, that number that is growing in size and influence. They are led by 80,000 fundamentalist pastors and clergy, their views disseminated by 1,000 local Christian radio stations as well as 100 Christian TV stations. Doug Kreiger lists over 250 pro-Israeli organisations founded in the 1980s alone...."

 

[Thomas Helwys]

This is the kind of pride that has swept into the church (not you, the teaching we are the focal point). We as a church are grafted in, we are not the natural branches. I don't know if its an unknown anti semitism that has crept into our teachings, but Israel (true Israel) is what all history points to. We as gentiles have been blessed by His grace in being included with the NATURAL branches.

I totally disagree. The focal point of history is Jesus Christ and all believers in him, the church. To substitute a physical nation for that is contrary to the Gospel and dishonors Jesus and what He did.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

And herein lies the basic error of the dispensational heresy, there is no longer TWO, there is only ONE people of God. The Church is NOT just a 'parenthesis', a 'glitch' in the scheme of things.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10:16

having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:15

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

If/when the 'natural branches' are ever grafted back in, it will be to that which they were broken off from, and that is THE CHURCH OF CHRIST of the covenant of grace.

:thumbsup:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

It matters greatly to the future of our nation. The dispensational heresy now morphed into full blown Christian Zionism with strong political clout on the far right has already done untold damage to the economic future of our children and their children's children:

Warmongering in the name of Christ

I certainly agree with that.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

When you are an anti-semetic conspiracy theorist you say things like he did.

Don't you think that unfair and going too far?

If this thread turns into name calling, nastiness, and a p*****g contest, I'll ask for it to be closed.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Waaaaay up in the hills! :laugh:

We'ins don't even wear shoes up here and our favorite past time is handlin' rattle snakes and drinkin' strychnine. We'ins even got us a still out back!


HERE is a good explanation for the 70 weeks of Daniel. Do the math. (I would but I'm too dumb cause I be livin in the hills too long.)

Sounds like my kind of people! :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Larry, 1st thing ...from indicators, this Dispy thing is on the wain & nobodies jumpin into it anymore. It just congers up ridiculous notions to most. So their grasp on the direction that this country is going to take in the future is questionable.

And if you read your bible you are told that you are not going to know things so this hysterical emphasis on this subject matter is ridiculous.

Lastly, if you take a trip North, there is little to no interest in any of this.....frankly we joke about how crazy the religious right is about any of this...its a bad Tim Lahay paperback that plays out none too well. And I am not participating in foolishness.

Hal Lindsey thought that we (the church) wouldn't be here by the end of the 80's. Then he said we'd be gone before 2000. Wonder what's next in his mind?