“Faith for Receiving Salvation”

[Chowmah]

No one had the indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT, yet many believed in God, and some were very obedient as Noah and Job.

PSALM 51 [10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. [11] Cast me not away from thy presence; and TAKE NOT THY HOLY SPIRIT FROM ME. [12] Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. [13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

If no one had the Holy Spirit in old testament, then the above must be speaking of the new testament Holy Spirit. So you must believe you can lose the Holy Spirit after youve recieved it.

 

[Winman]

PSALM 51 [10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. [11] Cast me not away from thy presence; and TAKE NOT THY HOLY SPIRIT FROM ME. [12] Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. [13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

If no one had the Holy Spirit in old testament, then the above must be speaking of the new testament Holy Spirit. So you must believe you can lose the Holy Spirit after youve recieved it.

The Holy Spirit came upon certain persons in the OT and could leave again, such as happened to king Saul.

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

This is why David prayed to God that the Holy Spirit would not be taken from him.

The promise made in Joel is that all believers would receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, this was confirmed at Pentacost.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

If all believers had the indwelling Spirit in the OT, then there would be no need to promise the Holy Spirit in the NT. And John 7:39 shows us that believers did not yet have the Spirit.

Jhn 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Many thousands of people believed on Jesus, but none of them received the Holy Spirit until after Jesus rose from the dead.

In the OT, only certain persons had the Spirit come upon them such as prophets, and the Spirit could depart from them. This is why David prayed that God would not take the Spirit from him. However, in the NT the Holy Spirit NEVER departs from a believer, we are sealed unto the day of redemption, the Holy Spirit abides IN US forever.

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Up to this time the Holy Spirit was only "with" the disciples, but Jesus promised he would be "IN YOU" when he sent him in the future.

 

[NetChaplain]

The Holy Spirit came upon certain persons in the OT and could leave again, such as happened to king Saul.

Good call Win - The Spirit in the OT dispensation was for communication and inspiring Scripture, but not for regeneration, "for the Holy Ghost was not yet given" (John 7:39).

 

[Yeshua1]

A possible helpful question could be, "Can one truly believe in Christ's earthly life (1Jo 4:3; 2Jo 1:7) and His resurrection (Rom 10:9) and also truly believe this alone is insufficient for salvation?

I believe while we are in an unregenerate state, we can only desire to believe in God (which I believe also comes from Him - John 6:44) because it cannot truly become practical until He imparts faith through His Spirit during regeneration, which of course must be preceded by first being aware of the Gospel essentials for faith (listed above). For it stands to reason that it requires knowing what facts are to be believed in before believing in them can become a practicality.

Once essentials are known, God is approached in prayer request for salvation and upon the Spirit entering the seeker's life (if sincere), His fruit (Gal 5:22 - not fruits, it's a singular package which includes faith, different from the ministerial gift of faith - 1 Cor 12:9) begins to take effect, as "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom 8:16).

The Spirit's personal "witness" or confirmation of faith in Christ is continually affirmed in us, without which such a conviction and gradual convincing of faith is not possible. This permanent consoling of the Holy Spirit is where faith not only takes root but grows--but only through Scripture.

I believe it would not be possible for the Spirit of God to be neglectful in allowing the new-born to continually walk in ignorance of Christ's sufficiency. If one truly believes in an error, e.g. that works are also required for receiving salvation, I believe it may evince one of two possibilities; a temporary unawareness of this truth, in which it's just a matter of time before the Spirit reveals it; or there was not a true desire for salvation upon request (James 4:3), thus the absence of the Spirit.

Would say that one can be a "believer" in jesus and the facts of the Bible as satan and His demons are, they believe in those truths, but are saved, as cannot commit to Him as their lord/saviour!

Same way, unless the father draws a sinner by thework of the Holy spriit to come to Chrsit and receive him thru faith, they at best are in same spot the Devil and demons are regarding 'knowing Christ!"

 

[NetChaplain]

Would say that one can be a "believer" in jesus and the facts of the Bible as satan and His demons are, they believe in those truths, but are saved, as cannot commit to Him as their lord/saviour!

Same way, unless the father draws a sinner by thework of the Holy spriit to come to Chrsit and receive him thru faith, they at best are in same spot the Devil and demons are regarding 'knowing Christ!"

Hi Yeshua - The instruction is realizing the difference between believing in and believing about. The devil and the other rebellious angels know there is a God but obviously do not trust (believe) in Him.

Same as Israel who, through infallible proofs, knew there is a God, but was in unbelief (did not trust Him).