If the Holy Spirit is In Charasmatic Movement, Why the errors and heresies?

[DHK]

My conclusion stated that the Day of Pentecost like the crucifiction might only be a one time event...but an eternal and continued affects on the believers! Where you limit and cut off the work of the Holy Spirit...I do not!

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:1-2 Long ago in many ways and at many times God's prophets spoke his message to our ancestors. 2 But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son. CEV

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

The gospels and the book of Acts are primarily history books. Just because Jesus walked on water doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because Peter healed thousands doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because Peter, James and John saw Jesus, Elijah and Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because the apostles had tongues of fire hovering above their heads doesn't mean you will. It is all history.
The gospels and Acts are books of history.
Jesus died on the cross; rose again. It is history.
Pentecost came and went. The apostles obeyed Christ. It is history.

Now look at the Scriptures.
God spoke in the OT in a different way than he does in the NT.
In the OT he spoke through the prophets through dreams, visions, through an audible voice, etc.
In the NT he speaks to us through his Son. Now that His Son is seated on the right hand of the throne of God, he speaks to us through His Word. That is what the Lord has left us. Look in 2Pet.3:1,2:
be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--This is the writing of the NT; the writings of the Apostle.
The writings of prophets are the OT. Christ is revealed to us through the Scriptures. Thus we have no need of revelatory gifts such as tongues any longer. We have no need of any of the spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit does not work through them. That is not his ministry. If it were there would be evidence, but there is none, is there? To this day you haven't provided any. No evidence of:
the gift of miracles;
the gift of healing;
the gift of languages--none whatsoever.

Today the message of the Lord is through his Word; it is the gospel.
Those who seek after a sign are carnal people. They are described by Jesus as a "wicked and adulterous generation."
Jesus said he will not give them a sign. The sign gifts; the supernatural gifts have ceased. The ones seeking them are carnal people belonging to a wicked and adulterous generation--Jesus' words.

 

[awaken]

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:1-2 Long ago in many ways and at many times God's prophets spoke his message to our ancestors. 2 But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son. CEV

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

The gospels and the book of Acts are primarily history books. Just because Jesus walked on water doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because Peter healed thousands doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because Peter, James and John saw Jesus, Elijah and Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration doesn't mean you can. It is history. Just because the apostles had tongues of fire hovering above their heads doesn't mean you will. It is all history.
The gospels and Acts are books of history.
Jesus died on the cross; rose again. It is history.
Pentecost came and went. The apostles obeyed Christ. It is history.

Now look at the Scriptures.
God spoke in the OT in a different way than he does in the NT.
In the OT he spoke through the prophets through dreams, visions, through an audible voice, etc.
In the NT he speaks to us through his Son. Now that His Son is seated on the right hand of the throne of God, he speaks to us through His Word. That is what the Lord has left us. Look in 2Pet.3:1,2:
be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--This is the writing of the NT; the writings of the Apostle.
The writings of prophets are the OT. Christ is revealed to us through the Scriptures. Thus we have no need of revelatory gifts such as tongues any longer. We have no need of any of the spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit does not work through them. That is not his ministry. If it were there would be evidence, but there is none, is there? To this day you haven't provided any. No evidence of:
the gift of miracles;
the gift of healing;
the gift of languages--none whatsoever.

Today the message of the Lord is through his Word; it is the gospel.
Those who seek after a sign are carnal people. They are described by Jesus as a "wicked and adulterous generation."
Jesus said he will not give them a sign. The sign gifts; the supernatural gifts have ceased. The ones seeking them are carnal people belonging to a wicked and adulterous generation--Jesus' words.

I do not seek a sign! I believed way before I experience anything in my life! Having the Holy Spirit manifest in your life as the Bible says it can is a plus to my faith! I already believed!
He was speaking to believers! You have to believe before you can experience anything! Salvation is in those books too! Do we ignore that too!

Your assumptions amaze me! They seem to be getting bigger than what is written!

 

[DHK]

I do not seek a sign! I believed way before I experience anything in my life! Having the Holy Spirit manifest in your life as the Bible says it can is a plus to my faith! I already believed!
He was speaking to believers! You have to believe before you can experience anything! Salvation is in those books too! Do we ignore that too!

Your assumptions amaze me! They seem to be getting bigger than what is written!

Your theology dictates that experience always triumphs the Word of God.
Thus:
One must experience demon oppression before he believes it.
One must actually see demon possession in unbelievers before he believes it.
One must experience salvation before he believes that Jesus will save.

If experience trumps belief, as you have expressed, then you cannot be saved. Because belief must come before the experience of salvation. Think about it.
I don't believe in your experiences because I believe the Bible, and what the Bible says about them. It is you that has the unbelief. You don't believe what the Bible says about spiritual gifts, and go on practicing an emotional experience which is not of God. If it is not of God, then who is it from?

 

[awaken]

Your theology dictates that experience always triumphs the Word of God.
Thus:
One must experience demon oppression before he believes it.
One must actually see demon possession in unbelievers before he believes it.
One must experience salvation before he believes that Jesus will save.

If experience trumps belief, as you have expressed, then you cannot be saved. Because belief must come before the experience of salvation. Think about it.
I don't believe in your experiences because I believe the Bible, and what the Bible says about them. It is you that has the unbelief. You don't believe what the Bible says about spiritual gifts, and go on practicing an emotional experience which is not of God. If it is not of God, then who is it from?

So are you saying that one can be saved without believing?..think about it!

 

[DHK]

So are you saying that one can be saved without believing?..think about it!

No, you told me that I must experience it before I believe.
Your experience trumps the word of God.
You put experience before belief.
If that is your theology then you are not saved.
I believed, and then I was saved. That was my experience, and is the experience of all who are genuinely saved. Belief must precede experience. But you are putting it the other way around. Belief must come first; not experience.
I was saved because I believed in the gospel; not because I had an experience.
If you were saved because you had an experience you are not saved.
Experiences don't save; Jesus saves. Belief in the atoning work of Jesus saves--not experiences.

 

[awaken]

No, you told me that I must experience it before I believe.
Your experience trumps the word of God.
You put experience before belief.
If that is your theology then you are not saved.
I believed, and then I was saved. That was my experience, and is the experience of all who are genuinely saved. Belief must precede experience. But you are putting it the other way around. Belief must come first; not experience.
I was saved because I believed in the gospel; not because I had an experience.
If you were saved because you had an experience you are not saved.
Experiences don't save; Jesus saves. Belief in the atoning work of Jesus saves--not experiences.

You need to read my post again! I did not say what you claim! I said you will never experience anything in the Bible until you believe and that includes salvation! The experience came after the belief! But those that chose to stay in unbelief will never experience what the Bible says they can!

 

[DHK]

I do not seek a sign! I believed way before I experience anything in my life! Having the Holy Spirit manifest in your life as the Bible says it can is a plus to my faith! I already believed!
He was speaking to believers! You have to believe before you can experience anything! Salvation is in those books too! Do we ignore that too!

Your assumptions amaze me! They seem to be getting bigger than what is written!

Don't change your testimony.
You believed in orthodox Baptist doctrine.
Then one day you had "this experience," which before 1905 was known only in cults.
The experience came before your belief. Your belief prior to that time was orthodox Baptist. You have said over and over again: "I did not seek this."
Thus you have put this experience as more important than the Word.
You did not seek it. It came to you. Because it came to you then you sought it out in the Bible and elsewhere (among the Charismatics), and then you believed.
You put your experience (which you did not seek) first. And then you believed. It was a feel-good experience. You unwisely attributed it to the Holy Spirit. Then you believed. It is backwards. Is your salvation like that also?

 

[awaken]

Don't change your testimony.
You believed in orthodox Baptist doctrine.
Then one day you had "this experience," which before 1905 was known only in cults.
The experience came before your belief. Your belief prior to that time was orthodox Baptist. You have said over and over again: "I did not seek this."
Thus you have put this experience as more important than the Word.
You did not seek it. It came to you. Because it came to you then you sought it out in the Bible and elsewhere (among the Charismatics), and then you believed.
You put your experience (which you did not seek) first. And then you believed. It was a feel-good experience. You unwisely attributed it to the Holy Spirit. Then you believed. It is backwards. Is your salvation like that also?

You are the one that changed my testimony!! I saw it in the Word..I believed what the word said and acted in faith...and I experienced it! I am tired of this personal attack on my testimony! So you can go and harass someone else!

We disagree on the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! So our discussion is closed!

 

[Yeshua1]

My conclusion stated that the Day of Pentecost like the crucifiction might only be a one time event...but an eternal and continued affects on the believers! Where you limit and cut off the work of the Holy Spirit...I do not!

the day of pentacost was a one time event , as God gave 'birth" tot he Church at that time , and had those tongues to confirm OTprophesy, and gave the sig,s and wonders to confirm the validity of the new covenant message of Christ jesus was Lord!

Since that has already passed and we are now ALL indwelt by the HS when saved, we have the more sure word of the Bible he uses to guide and instruct us with!

We now have in our hands what Paul and John and peter wrote, something they would have longed to have in early church all assembled together tio be read and studied from!

 

[awaken]

the day of pentacost was a one time event , as God gave 'birth" tot he Church at that time , and had those tongues to confirm OTprophesy, and gave the sig,s and wonders to confirm the validity of the new covenant message of Christ jesus was Lord!

Since that has already passed and we are now ALL indwelt by the HS when saved, we have the more sure word of the Bible he uses to guide and instruct us with!

We now have in our hands what Paul and John and peter wrote, something they would have longed to have in early church all assembled together tio be read and studied from!

So was the crucifiction! But everlasting affects!
Penecost though a one time event....is still for us today just like salvation!

 

[DHK]

So was the crucifiction! But everlasting affects!
Penecost though a one time event....is still for us today just like salvation!

With the cross came salvation to all who believe.
With Pentecost came the indwelling of the Spirit to all believers at the time of their believing in Christ or salvation.

With the cross the events of the cross were one time historical events. The veil does not continue to rend itself in two. The thief on the cross does not continue to be saved. The resurrection was a one time event and he does not continue to resurrect himself every third day. The events that surround the cross happened but one time.

With Pentecost the events of Pentecost were one time historical events.
There is no more sound of a rushing wind.
There are no more cloven tongues like fire.
There are no more Jews that crucified the Lord to whom Peter spoke.
There are no more Apostles that spoke in tongues.
That which took place was a one time event; that which continues was the effect of which believers continue to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the time they trust Christ; nothing more.