Pastor Francis Chan

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anybody know anything about Pastor Francis Chan from Simi Valley California?

Mike Hukabee had him on last night & he sounds too good to be true....resigning his position & giving 90% away to charity.

Wiki Bio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Chan

 

[annsni]

Yep - He's true and he's a great author in addition to being an amazing communicator.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yep - He's true and he's a great author in addition to being an amazing communicator.

Have you read any of his books?

 

[steaver]

Have you read any of his books?

We read through his book "The Forgotten God" where he speaks about our lack of power in our walk with Christ in our Sunday School class. Outside of a few disagreements over "opinion" he is very down to earth and sound in his teaching. My wife just bought the book "Crazy Love" and is reading it now. I like him.

 

[12strings]

It's real,

Hear him explain himself a bit here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p-SYMis0-w

& here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG827sCz-v4

 

[steaver]

I would say that Chan is not one that would get into debates on doctrines such as we do here. He is about living Christ in the eyes of others and preaching love without condemnation. He is more of a life application preacher, not so much an expositor of the scriptures. He's like a Billy Graham sort of in the sense that he sticks to the core gospel message and leaves the theological bickering to others. Like us! :laugh:

Hey, God loves us all and is glorified in theologians as well! We can all learn from each other.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well this guy "Francis Chan" made quite an impression on my wife the other night so I'm going to encourage her to read one of his books.

Who knows where the HS will take this in her soul....its been so damaged by bad ministers that I hope it will be a epiphany. We will see.

 

[annsni]

Well this guy "Francis Chan" made quite an impression on my wife the other night so I'm going to encourage her to read one of his books.

Who knows where the HS will take this in her soul....its been so damaged by bad ministers that I hope it will be a epiphany. We will see.

Crazy Love is a wonderful book on God's crazy love for us.

Forgotten God speaks about the often forgotten Holy Spirit.

Erasing Hell is a response book to Rob Bell's Love Wins book and speaks to the truth of hell.

 

[steaver]

Well this guy "Francis Chan" made quite an impression on my wife the other night so I'm going to encourage her to read one of his books.

Who knows where the HS will take this in her soul....its been so damaged by bad ministers that I hope it will be a epiphany. We will see.

I believe he is Spirit filled. There was a dvd that we purchased to use along with the book which had several teaching segments of Fancis. He certainly loves God and wants others to live a life of passion for Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and for serving others.

 

[DHK]

From what I have heard I could not endorse him.
Here is an article from Christianity Today.

[FONT=&quot]In your book you seem agnostic as to whether hell is a conscious eternal torment or annihilation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That was one of the things I was a little surprised by: the language. I would definitely have to say that if I leaned a certain direction I would lean toward the conscious torment that's eternal. But I couldn't say I'm sure of that, because there are some passages that really seem to emphasize a destruction. And then I look in history and find that's not really a strange view. There are some good, godly men—and maybe even the majority—that seem to take the annihilation view. I was surprised because all I was brought up with was conscious torment. And I see that. I see that in Scripture and I would lean more that way but, I'm not ready to say okay I know it's this one. So say here "Here are a couple of views." I don't even remember if I wrote that I lean towards that, but maybe it comes across.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I'm still open. And I hope that's because of my study and not because I'd rather have the annihilation view. I don't know what was harder, researching or keeping a check on my heart and making sure there are no weird, ungodly motives in everything I wrote.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Q&A: Francis Chan on Rob Bell and Hell[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/julyweb-only/francis-chan-hell.html?start=3[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From what I read not only here but in other places as well, Chan does not believe in hell as an eternal place of punishment for the wicked.
[/FONT]

 

[steaver]

From what I have heard I could not endorse him.
Here is an article from Christianity Today.
[/SIZE][FONT=&quot]From what I read not only here but in other places as well, Chan does not believe in the hell is an eternal place of punishment for the wicked. [/FONT]

To be honest, I think he is being honest. I understand his pov, I would probably answer the same way as he did. One thing is for sure, either way it turns out to be is certainly ok with me. God is God and He is Just in all His ways. I will focus on the grace that has been preached and let this detail in God's hands. Just my HO, he's not out there preaching anhillation, he is just giving his honest opinion in my view.

 

[12strings]

From what I have heard I could not endorse him.
Here is an article from Christianity Today.
[FONT=&quot]From what I read not only here but in other places as well, Chan does not believe in hell as an eternal place of punishment for the wicked.
[/FONT]

Actually, from what you quoted, it sounds like he DOES believe in hell as an eternal place of punishment for the wicked...but he is not as sure of that view as he is of, for example, Christ's deity. Like a Dispy who says, "I believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation, but I'm not completely sure of it...could be middle, could be at the end."

 

[Thomas Helwys]

To be honest, I think he is being honest. I understand his pov, I would probably answer the same way as he did. One thing is for sure, either way it turns out to be is certainly ok with me. God is God and He is Just in all His ways. I will focus on the grace that has been preached and let this detail in God's hands. Just my HO, he's not out there preaching anhillation, he is just giving his honest opinion in my view.

That's the way I took it, too.

 

[DHK]

Actually, from what you quoted, it sounds like he DOES believe in hell as an eternal place of punishment for the wicked...but he is not as sure of that view as he is of, for example, Christ's deity. Like a Dispy who says, "I believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation, but I'm not completely sure of it...could be middle, could be at the end."

Honesty is one thing; ambivalence in doctrine is quite another.
The orthodox Christian doctrine throughout the ages has always bee the eternal damnation of the wicked. We come out strong, and condemn the SDA on their doctrine of "the annihilation of the wicked." It is a doctrine that cults believe in because they refuse to believe that God would send someone to hell for all eternity, a doctrine which we have preached throughout the centuries.

Now this man comes, a leader, and says: "I honestly don't know what I believe." And people follow him? What if he says: "I honestly don't believe if Christ is deity." Would your attitude be the same? He could be just as sincere. Do we judge a person on their sincerity? The J.W.'s are sincere in their beliefs, but sincerely wrong!

One cannot be on both sides of the fence. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve (or what you will believe).
Paul E. Little wrote two books. "Know What you Believe," and "Know Why you Believe." Do you know why you believe what you believe?
It seems that Chan does not, IMO.

 

[annsni]

From what I have heard I could not endorse him.
Here is an article from Christianity Today.
[FONT=&quot]From what I read not only here but in other places as well, Chan does not believe in hell as an eternal place of punishment for the wicked.
[/FONT]

From that quote from him, I do believe he DOES believe that it is a place of eternal punishment. I don't see him saying otherwise.

 

[annsni]

Honesty is one thing; ambivalence in doctrine is quite another.
The orthodox Christian doctrine throughout the ages has always bee the eternal damnation of the wicked. We come out strong, and condemn the SDA on their doctrine of "the annihilation of the wicked." It is a doctrine that cults believe in because they refuse to believe that God would send someone to hell for all eternity, a doctrine which we have preached throughout the centuries.

Now this man comes, a leader, and says: "I honestly don't know what I believe." And people follow him? What if he says: "I honestly don't believe if Christ is deity." Would your attitude be the same? He could be just as sincere. Do we judge a person on their sincerity? The J.W.'s are sincere in their beliefs, but sincerely wrong!

One cannot be on both sides of the fence. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve (or what you will believe).
Paul E. Little wrote two books. "Know What you Believe," and "Know Why you Believe." Do you know why you believe what you believe?
It seems that Chan does not, IMO.

I didn't see him say that he didn't know what he believed. He said "I was surprised because all I was brought up with was conscious torment. And I see that. I see that in Scripture and I would lean more that way but, I'm not ready to say okay I know it's this one."

 

[DHK]

I didn't see him say that he didn't know what he believed. He said "I was surprised because all I was brought up with was conscious torment. And I see that. I see that in Scripture and I would lean more that way but, I'm not ready to say okay I know it's this one."

Q. In your book you seem agnostic as to whether hell is a conscious eternal torment or annihilation.


A. That was one of the things I was a little surprised by: the language. I would definitely have to say that if I leaned a certain direction I would lean toward the conscious torment that's eternal. But I couldn't say I'm sure of that, because there are some passages that really seem to emphasize a destruction. And then I look in history and find that's not really a strange view. There are some good, godly men—and maybe even the majority—that seem to take the annihilation view. I was surprised because all I was brought up with was conscious torment. And I see that. I see that in Scripture and I would lean more that way but, I'm not ready to say okay I know it's this one. So say here "Here are a couple of views." I don't even remember if I wrote that I lean towards that, but maybe it comes across.

First, I see doubt in his belief of eternal torment. He only leans in that direction.
Second, He believes that perhaps the majority of Godly men believed in annihilation. That is just wrong. That is not the orthodox Christian belief throughout the ages. It is the belief of cults, not Christians.



What he says is in stark contrast to "and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever."

 

[steaver]

.

Now this man comes, a leader, and says: "I honestly don't know what I believe." And people follow him?

I don't think he has a following, he is just a pastor/evangelist. I think people like his passion for living out Jesus Christ in his life. Do you want to condemn the man for this?

What if he says: "I honestly don't believe if Christ is deity." Would your attitude be the same? He could be just as sincere. Do we judge a person on their sincerity? The J.W.'s are sincere in their beliefs, but sincerely wrong!

Well, no, my attitude would not be the same. We could throw any quote in there if that is how we judge a man, by one non-essential doctrine or belief held over another. How about if he says "I honestly don't know if the earth is 6000 years old or 6 million". Does this also disqualify him as a christian who wants to love God and serve others and teach others to do the same? Does this mean we discard any good works the man does as worthless? What if he doesn't believe in Calvinism? Or baptism by immersion? Or in gifts? Shall we throw him out of our fellowship?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There isnt enough here to prove that Chan is an apostate to stand in my wifes way to read his book....Im sure as she reads the book that she will be keeping me informed of her progress & if she has theological questions that she will come to me.

I pray that the HS will also be guiding her as I'm fairly sure she is an elect person who will eventually be introduced to Christ once she gets her defensive nature of Pastors out of the way....she needs to trust again & I pray she will. So do I pray for someones salvation (to become evident) ....yes, you better believe I do.

 

[DHK]

I don't think he has a following, he is just a pastor/evangelist. I think people like his passion for living out Jesus Christ in his life. Do you want to condemn the man for this?



Well, no, my attitude would not be the same. We could throw any quote in there if that is how we judge a man, by one non-essential doctrine or belief held over another. How about if he says "I honestly don't know if the earth is 6000 years old or 6 million". Does this also disqualify him as a christian who wants to love God and serve others and teach others to do the same? Does this mean we discard any good works the man does as worthless? What if he doesn't believe in Calvinism? Or baptism by immersion? Or in gifts? Shall we throw him out of our fellowship?

The things you mention are very debatable.
Calvinism has been debated ad infinitum on this board, and without any resolution, and there never will be.
There are many Baptists that believe that the gifts have not ceased.
There are evangelicals (not Baptists) that believe in a different mode of baptism.
Creation is a hotly contested issue, not the belief in it, but rather whether one is Old Earth or Young Earth.

The above are debatable issues among believers.
The eternal damnation of the wicked is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity that has never been up for debate.
We believe in the eternal life for the righteous and eternal damnation for the wicked. I have seen that in every Baptist statement of faith I have ever read. I would not ever see that up for debate, ever.