While speaking in tounges....

[Salty]

The reason I brought that up, was what happend to me when I was stationed with the US Army in USAEUR. I was assigned to the family furniture warehouse. We contracted with a German moving company to issue furniture to authorized personnel. My job was to supervise the German workers and be the liaison to the family member.

I did not speak German (and 3 of the 4 Germans did not speak any English!) - well we did try to learn from each other.

I would often repeat what they said - and then try to learn the translation. For a while, I was cussing in German - without realizing it! - until I was informed of what it meant.

If something is not interpreted - be careful what you say.

 

[awaken]

1 Cor. 12:1-3 might help answer your question. If it is really from God, by the Spirit of God...no man speaking BY THE SPIRIT of God calleth Jesus accursed.

If the Holy Spirit gives the utterance as Acts 2 says He does! Why would the Holy Spirit cuss through a child of God? We must trust the Holy Spirit that is speaking through us!

Yes, there are false out there! But the Bible explains the real! There are false teachers, prophets, pastors etc...but there is also the real!

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Cor. 12:1-3 might help answer your question. If it is really from God, by the Spirit of God...no man speaking BY THE SPIRIT of God calleth Jesus accursed.

If the Holy Spirit gives the utterance as Acts 2 says He does! Why would the Holy Spirit cuss through a child of God? We must trust the Holy Spirit that is speaking through us!

Yes, there are false out there! But the Bible explains the real! There are false teachers, prophets, pastors etc...but there is also the real!

the problem with that is that the same heretics/false teachers who are in the Charasmatic movement such as hagin/Copeland/Hinn all tongue an dprophesy and claim revealtions, how can the holy spirit be with heretics of the faith?

 

[awaken]

the problem with that is that the same heretics/false teachers who are in the Charasmatic movement such as hagin/Copeland/Hinn all tongue an dprophesy and claim revealtions, how can the holy spirit be with heretics of the faith?

Again...only smart remarks..never reply to what is posted. Do you know what a debate is? State you case against what was posted...otherwise what I read from your post is empty remarks!

 

[steaver]

Have you ever watched some of those preachers on tv who will blurt out some jibber jabber while they are preaching? I've seen Clefflo Dollar do this and a few others. Now, these men surely know the scripture is clear that while in assembly you are not to speak in tongues UNLESS one interprets for the assembly to understand what was just said in those unknown tongues. So why do they disobey God, even as they preach to the assembly?

 

[DHK]

The guidelines God provided were a correction of how it was done in an assembly.
You can not show me one scripture proving it can not be done outside the assembly!

How can you say I can not pray outside the church/assembly? Do you only pray in the church?

Can you show me the guidelines in the Scriptures for cats and dogs to speak in tongues.
Obviously there aren't any, just as there aren't any for praying outside the assembly. There aren't any for praying inside your car, or on your cell phone while you are driving either.

But we do know that these are gifts given to the church/assembly.
We do know that they are for the edification of the church.
We do have the restrictions and limitations for their use in the assembly.
We have good reason to believe that these gifts were for use in the assembly only, and never for private use.

Have you ever used or seen the gift of healing used privately, just for private use. Is that how you would "misinterpret" "Physician heal thyself."

 

[TCassidy]

Paul gives a definitive answer to the "tongues" question, and that answer is that tongues ceased in the late 1st century AD and the so-called "tongues" practiced in heretical "churches" today is either fake for demonic, or both.

1st Corinthians 12:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Notice Paul said "tongues shall cease." Then, in verse 13 Paul says "now abides faith, hope, love, these three."

Paul did NOT say "now abides faith, hope, love, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, these six."

Even while Paul was penning the words of 1 Corinthians God had already stopped giving the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge to new converts, and as those older saints grew old and died those gifts died with them. We no longer need them. We are now mature. We have the completed bible which is, according to Peter, a more sure word of prophecy (the bible) - 2 Peter 1:19. Having the complete bible is better than the piece meal prophecies that Peter had according to his own testimony.

 

[church mouse guy]

Paul gives a definitive answer to the "tongues" question, and that answer is that tongues ceased in the late 1st century AD and the so-called "tongues" practiced in heretical "churches" today is either fake for demonic, or both.

1st Corinthians 12:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Notice Paul said "tongues shall cease." Then, in verse 13 Paul says "now abides faith, hope, love, these three."

Paul did NOT say "now abides faith, hope, love, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, these six."

Even while Paul was penning the words of 1 Corinthians God had already stopped giving the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge to new converts, and as those older saints grew old and died those gifts died with them. We no longer need them. We are now mature. We have the completed bible which is, according to Peter, a more sure word of prophecy (the bible) - 2 Peter 1:19. Having the complete bible is better than the piece meal prophecies that Peter had according to his own testimony.

By your reading, would you not agree that knowledge has disappeared also since it is not mentioned in the summary? By the way, I think that nothing will be perfect until we get to Heaven.

 

[TCassidy]

By your reading, would you not agree that knowledge has disappeared also since it is not mentioned in the summary?

Yes, the Divine gift of knowledge, placed directly in the Prophet's head by God, is no longer active. Today we are commanded to "study to show ourselves approved unto God."

By the way, I think that nothing will be perfect until we get to Heaven.

God's word is perfect. Perfect means "complete, mature, nothing missing that is necessary to the whole."

 

[awaken]

Can you show me the guidelines in the Scriptures for cats and dogs to speak in tongues.
Obviously there aren't any, just as there aren't any for praying outside the assembly. There aren't any for praying inside your car, or on your cell phone while you are driving either.

But we do know that these are gifts given to the church/assembly.
We do know that they are for the edification of the church.
We do have the restrictions and limitations for their use in the assembly.
We have good reason to believe that these gifts were for use in the assembly only, and never for private use.

Have you ever used or seen the gift of healing used privately, just for private use. Is that how you would "misinterpret" "Physician heal thyself."

Ridiculous comparisons! I will just leave it at that!

 

[awaken]

Paul gives a definitive answer to the "tongues" question, and that answer is that tongues ceased in the late 1st century AD and the so-called "tongues" practiced in heretical "churches" today is either fake for demonic, or both.

1st Corinthians 12:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Notice Paul said "tongues shall cease." Then, in verse 13 Paul says "now abides faith, hope, love, these three."

Paul did NOT say "now abides faith, hope, love, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, these six."

Even while Paul was penning the words of 1 Corinthians God had already stopped giving the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge to new converts, and as those older saints grew old and died those gifts died with them. We no longer need them. We are now mature. We have the completed bible which is, according to Peter, a more sure word of prophecy (the bible) - 2 Peter 1:19. Having the complete bible is better than the piece meal prophecies that Peter had according to his own testimony.

You like most that are in unbelief about this ignore that when they cease will be when we know as we are known and see face to face!

 

[TCassidy]

You like most that are in unbelief about this ignore that when they cease will be when we know as we are known and see face to face!

Already dealt with. The bible gives us the ability to know ourselves as God knows us, "the heart is deceitful among all things and desperately wicked to the point we can't understand."

Before the bible when we looked into the mirror we saw only a dim reflection of ourselves that did not highlight all our sins. But since the bible is complete we can see ourselves as if we were face to face with ourselves. We see ourselves as God sees us.

 

[awaken]

Already dealt with. The bible gives us the ability to know ourselves as God knows us, "the heart is deceitful among all things and desperately wicked to the point we can't understand."

Before the bible when we looked into the mirror we saw only a dim reflection of ourselves that did not highlight all our sins. But since the bible is complete we can see ourselves as if we were face to face with ourselves. We see ourselves as God sees us.

1 John 3:2 Seems to have a different view of knowing Him as he knows us! I do not think we know Him as He knows us! It says we will know as WE ARE KNOWN!

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"

Paul also disagrees with you in Philippians 4:12..
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus"

#1 You have not addressed the purpose of tongues.
#2 You have yet to prove that "that which is perfect" refers to the Bible being made available in print
#3 Paul's writings were repeatedly about the soon return of our Lord.
#4 Jesus will give us perfect knowledge when he returns..not until then! Yes! We have his written Word..but that does not mean we have complete knowledge of it
#5 Why wouldn't Paul put the Greek Word "Graphe" in there if he was speaking of the written Word? In context of 1 Cor.12-14 Nowhere does it mention the written Word. The context is about spiritual gifts and the proper use in the assembly.


Another thing to consider...
The best way to understand what Paul meant by the Greek word teleios ("perfection") is to examine every place he used it in Scripture and then to determine how he normally used this word. Apart from the verse we are studying (1 Corinthians 13:10), Paul used teleios seven other times in the New Testament (Romans 12:2, 1 Corinthians 2:6, 14:20, Ephesians 4:13, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 1:28, 4:12). With the sole exception of Romans 12:2, it's clear that every time Paul used the Greek word teleios ("perfection") he was referring to the spiritual maturity of believers, which will not be fully complete or perfect until we are resurrected and transformed at the return of Christ (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The internal evidence of Paul's consistent use of teleios is a strong reason for understanding "perfection" in 1 Corinthians 13:10 as being a reference to our ultimate perfection in heaven. There's no evidence to suggest that Paul had the completed New Testament in mind in 1 Corinthians 13:10

 

[DHK]

Ridiculous comparisons! I will just leave it at that!

Not ridiculous at all. You want others to prove negatives to you?
You are consistently illogical in your thinking.
"Show me in the Bible where one CANNOT pray....."
Well show me in the Bible where one CANNOT......
Cannot do what? play the piano, do handstands, cut the grass, etc.
You can't prove negatives. And in doing so you can read anything you want in the Bible because "You can't show me that one cannot..."

But what we can do is show you what the purpose of tongues is; what the purpose of the spiritual gifts was for, etc. We can tell you what the Bible says about these things, and teach the doctrine that concerns them. We don't believe or practice that which is accepted on blind faith or that which has no biblical foundation.

 

[awaken]

Not ridiculous at all. You want others to prove negatives to you?
You are consistently illogical in your thinking.
"Show me in the Bible where one CANNOT pray....."
Well show me in the Bible where one CANNOT......
Cannot do what? play the piano, do handstands, cut the grass, etc.
You can't prove negatives. And in doing so you can read anything you want in the Bible because "You can't show me that one cannot..."

But what we can do is show you what the purpose of tongues is; what the purpose of the spiritual gifts was for, etc. We can tell you what the Bible says about these things, and teach the doctrine that concerns them. We don't believe or practice that which is accepted on blind faith or that which has no biblical foundation.

I have only one thing to say to you...because we have hashed this out so many times...
Unbelief says some other time, but not now; some other place, but not here, some other people, but not us. I confess in faith that whatever God did some other time, He is willing to do now; whatever He did some other place, He is willing to do here; whatever He did for any other people, He is willing to do for us, NOW!
Continue in your unbelief! I have nothing else to say to you! Blind faith is having nothing to stand on! I stand on the Word of God! YOu ignore or rationalize away so much of the Scripture, saying: "That was for the that age" ...Most that make that statement can get rid of any part of the Bible they do not experience or want to deal with.

Also to say "those Scriptures are no longer valid" is taking away from the Bible in a way that is disrespectful to God.

 

[Salty]

Also to say "those Scriptures are no longer valid" is taking away from the Bible in a way that is disrespectful to God.

Does this mean you still sacrifice sheep for atonement?
Does this mean you still worsip Sat as the Sabbath

 

[awaken]

Does this mean you still sacrifice sheep for atonement?
Does this mean you still worsip Sat as the Sabbath

The New covenant does not include those! Are we in the Old Covenant? I did not add or take away from what Jesus died and declared for us in the New Covenant. We are the born again church! The Holy Spirit was sent the Day of Pentecost and I have not read one scripture in the New Testament saying that Jesus took Him Back.

Romans 11:29 God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE.

God’s charisma are irrevocable. The Amplified Bible says: “For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable -- He never withdraws them when once they are given.”

The Greek word here for “gifts” is charisma, from which we derive our English word “charismatic.” The Bible is assuring us that the charismatic gifts, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, are never revoked or withdrawn when once they have been given. In fact, the bible encourages us to increase in our spiritual gifts.

 

[awaken]

Mark 16:15-17 He [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues.

The verses above are an excerpt of Mark’s account of Jesus’ Great Commission. It was Jesus Himself who initiated the subject of speaking in tongues in the New Testament. He said that it would be a “sign” that would accompany believers as they went into all the world and preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus endorsed the practice. In fact, Jesus said that speaking in tongues is one of the signs that “will accompany those who believe.”

 

[steaver]

Mark 16:15-17 He [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues.

The verses above are an excerpt of Mark’s account of Jesus’ Great Commission. It was Jesus Himself who initiated the subject of speaking in tongues in the New Testament. He said that it would be a “sign” that would accompany believers as they went into all the world and preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus endorsed the practice. In fact, Jesus said that speaking in tongues is one of the signs that “will accompany those who believe.”

But this is when one's salvation is challenged by those trying to defend speaking in tongues. It seems when they get pushed they cross this line which looks like they are saying "if one does not speak in tongues, then they have not been saved". I believe you already said you did not believe this, but it looks like you do when you cite this passage. I do not speak in tongues, should I be worried that I am not a believer? The scripture you referenced does not say "might" accompany those who believe, but rather "will" accompany those who believe.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

There must be an interpreter when we gather together! We ourselves are to ask for the interpretation (1 Cor. 14:13)

1 Cor. 14:28 states that if there is no interpreter let the one speaking in tongues keep silent IN CHURCH. He is to speak to himself (quietly) and to God!

My experience with Pencsotals has been primarily with COG Cleveland, TN. The practice is during worship service is someone will shout out in "tongues" then it will be quiet for a few moments and someone else will shout out the "interpretation". I was always quite sceptical of this practice because without exception the "interpretor" always preceeded his/her "interpretation" with "Thus saith the Lord!" Which made me come to the conclusion that God doesn't like speaking in the current vernacular and prefers the use of King James English. Though I suppect KJO people would agree with this. Another reason my scepticism peeked was because also without exception the "interpretation" was a scripture quote usually psalms or proverbs or maybe a combination of the two. Which lead me to believe that 1) God doesn't speak directly to our circumstances or 2) that God forgets that we do have bibles and do read them knowing what these passages are.