While speaking in tounges....

[awaken]

I wasn't quoting MacArthur. I was giving you the results of my own study.
And that is scripture. You can't run away from it. There is a difference between the spirit and the mind. One uses his human spirit, the source of emotion, and one uses his mind, his intellect. We use both. And Paul says we use both.

So your study concludes that the emotions come from our born again spirit? Really? Maybe you need to do a study on body, spirit and mind!

Yes! and he makes it clear (but you ignore it) in verse 14 that tongue = "my spirit prayeth"
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful"

You have to over look this scripture to believe the way you do!

 

[awaken]

Hmm, has MacArthur ever hinted that those "speaking in tongues may be cussing and not realizing it.

Salty

PS - remember cussing in "tongues" is the OP

I answered that and do not remember if you responded! 1 Cor. 12:3..If it is biblical tongues/Spirit that gives the utterance (Acts 2)/manifestation of the Spirit (vs. 7) then you can not call Jesus accursed!

Can you explain to me why the Holy Spirit would cuss?

 

[church mouse guy]

Anyone that says they see every thing clear now is not being honest!

Right. I am not charismatic, but I do believe that we see through a glass darkly and I agree that no one sees clearly. Therefore, I do not believe that spiritual gifts ceased by 100 AD or so. But then I think that I only know in part.

Does anyone believe that he or she sees face to face or knows as he or she is known?

1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[DHK]

So your study concludes that the emotions come from our born again spirit? Really? Maybe you need to do a study on body, spirit and mind!

Yes! and he makes it clear (but you ignore it) in verse 14 that tongue = "my spirit prayeth"
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful"

You have to over look this scripture to believe the way you do!

I think I explained that to you already.
CONTEXT:
1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1. Seek to excel to the edifying of the church.
--Speaking in tongues does not do that; neither does praying.
2. For the above reason if tongues are to be used, they must have interpretation. That is the meaning of verse 13.

First don't think your gibberish is a tongue; it isn't. A tongue is a language that can be understood. I don't agree with everything MacArthur says, but I think it would be good for you to read to get another perspective.
So tongue is not gibberish but a known language, like German.
But the Corinthians could not understand.

The "my understanding is unfruitful" does not mean "my personal understanding," but rather "the church's understanding of me." You could understand you; but they couldn't understand you. It was a futile exercise in communication. Your human spirit prayed as well it should. But your understanding will never be the same as it is in your mother tongue. You pray in your spirit--your own human emotions. It feels good. But you don't have the complete understanding that you know you should. If you are going to simply pray, why not do it in your own language where you can express yourself with your mind and your spirit before God.

 

[awaken]

Right. I am not charismatic, but I do believe that we see through a glass darkly and I agree that no one sees clearly. Therefore, I do not believe that spiritual gifts ceased by 100 AD or so. But then I think that I only know in part.

Does anyone believe that he or she sees face to face or knows as he or she is known?

1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

How can you say they have ceased if you believe this?

 

[awaken]

I think I explained that to you already.
CONTEXT:
1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1. Seek to excel to the edifying of the church.
--Speaking in tongues does not do that; neither does praying.
2. For the above reason if tongues are to be used, they must have interpretation. That is the meaning of verse 13.

First don't think your gibberish is a tongue; it isn't. A tongue is a language that can be understood. I don't agree with everything MacArthur says, but I think it would be good for you to read to get another perspective.
So tongue is not gibberish but a known language, like German.
But the Corinthians could not understand.

The "my understanding is unfruitful" does not mean "my personal understanding," but rather "the church's understanding of me." You could understand you; but they couldn't understand you. It was a futile exercise in communication. Your human spirit prayed as well it should. But your understanding will never be the same as it is in your mother tongue. You pray in your spirit--your own human emotions. It feels good. But you don't have the complete understanding that you know you should. If you are going to simply pray, why not do it in your own language where you can express yourself with your mind and your spirit before God.

It is pretty plain "MY UNDERSTANDING".... it does not say the church's understanding! Wow! you really have to twist and add to the word to fit your theories!

IF MY UNDERSTANDING WAS FRUITFUL (IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING)....THEN WHY DOES HE TELL ME TO PRAY FOR THE INTERPRETATION????

 

[Salty]

I answered that...?

I didn't say you didn't answer that - but virtually all posters since just about the beginning have been off the OP. ie hijacked -

The discussions being brought up (on tongues)
are excellent ones - but folks need to start those discussions on new threads.

Lets discuss the actual OP

 

[awaken]

I didn't say you didn't answer that - but virtually all posters since just about the beginning have been off the OP. ie hijacked -

The discussions being brought up (on tongues)
are excellent ones - but folks need to start those discussions on new threads.

Lets discuss the actual OP

agreed!:thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

Again...only smart remarks..never reply to what is posted. Do you know what a debate is? State you case against what was posted...otherwise what I read from your post is empty remarks!

Are the faith teachers such as those i named, who ALl spoke in other tongues, were into signs and wonders etc

Were they used by the HS, and yet also denied the real gospel and jesus too?

How can the HS be involved in the ministries of those holding to heretical doctrines?

Do you acknowledge them as being false or not?

 

[DHK]

It is pretty plain "MY UNDERSTANDING".... it does not say the church's understanding! Wow! you really have to twist and add to the word to fit your theories!

IF MY UNDERSTANDING WAS FRUITFUL (IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING)....THEN WHY DOES HE TELL ME TO PRAY FOR THE INTERPRETATION????

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The meaning is clear. If God did not give you any interpretation, your gift was not from God at all. It was fake. If it could not be interpreted it was fake; it was not of God. God would provide an interpreter if you had the genuine gift. If there was no interpreter, even if it was yourself, you didn't have the gift.
You were to shut up and keep silence.

 

[Salty]

Are the faith teachers such as those i named, who ALl spoke in other tongues, were into signs and wonders etc

Were they used by the HS, and yet also denied the real gospel and jesus too?

How can the HS be involved in the ministries of those holding to heretical doctrines?

Do you acknowledge them as being false or not?

since this is off OP, please start a new thread

 

[Yeshua1]

since this is off OP, please start a new thread

i was adressing your OP, in that many who are heretics also claim to speak in tongues, so how can the HS be in that?

how can awaken discern whose tongue is the right one?

 

[church mouse guy]

How can you say they have ceased if you believe this?

Oh, I said that I did not think that spiritual gifts ceased in 100 AD or before, more or less. I just said that I am not charismatic, by which I meant that I do not speak in tongues or understand tongues. I agree with people like Dwight Moody and therefore I believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts. Moody wrote a book on this subject--it was entitled Secret Power.

 

[awaken]

Oh, I said that I did not think that spiritual gifts ceased in 100 AD or before, more or less. I just said that I am not charismatic, by which I meant that I do not speak in tongues or understand tongues. I agree with people like Dwight Moody and therefore I believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts. Moody wrote a book on this subject--it was entitled Secret Power.

Salty wants to stay on OP...but I do not know what Moody teaches...but that would be another thread! Since I answered Salty's question..I will leave this thread now...

 

[Yeshua1]

Salty wants to stay on OP...but I do not know what Moody teaches...but that would be another thread! Since I answered Salty's question..I will leave this thread now...

moody taught as good baptist, that the power to preach Chrsit was thru the Holy spirit, and as one yielded and relied upon Him, there was power in speaking/preaching etc for Christ!