The proof is in the pudding.

[percho]

YLT Gen. 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

YLT Romans 5:12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;

KJV Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin.

Was there any manner in which a man could have lived by which we would not be paid the wages of sin? Could a man live his life good enough to please God to not be paid the wages of sin after the sin of Adam?

Why did faithful Abraham not receive the promises?

What needed to be done?

The more responses the better. They should pretty much all agree.

 

[HisWitness]

YLT Gen. 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

YLT Romans 5:12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;

KJV Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin.

Was there any manner in which a man could have lived by which we would not be paid the wages of sin? Could a man live his life good enough to please God to not be paid the wages of sin after the sin of Adam?

Why did faithful Abraham not receive the promises?

What needed to be done?

The more responses the better. They should pretty much all agree.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

something else to think about is that the DEATH was not physical DEATH that was passed BUT SOUL DEATH

 

[percho]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

something else to think about is that the DEATH was not physical DEATH that was passed BUT SOUL DEATH

I agree dying will bring death. the reason for YLT.

 

[MB]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

something else to think about is that the DEATH was not physical DEATH that was passed BUT SOUL DEATH

Not so. It was physcial death because with out the fruit from the tree of life we die. The spirit of man never dies if it did he could never be held responsible for the sins of the body. Which it would have had no part in.
MB

 

[HisWitness]

Not so. It was physcial death because with out the fruit from the tree of life we die. The spirit of man never dies if it did he could never be held responsible for the sins of the body. Which it would have had no part in.
MB

The SOUL that sins shall DIE(does not say physical death says SOUL DEATH

Man was already going to die physically--that is why the tree of life was there--the part of man that was never gonna die was the SOUL--until he ate of the other tree--God removed man from the garden so he could NOT eat of the tree of life--why--because man would never die physically if he ate of the tree of life.it means in Dieing adam SURELY DIED--not just physically BUT SOUL also--this body is not us--just a house we live in:jesus::jesus:

 

[percho]

Please answer the last two questions, created by sin and death.

 

[psalms109:31]

Actually Adam sin kicked us out of the Garden away from the tree of life for our body to start our surely will die our condemnation of the body.

Adam still had conversation with God after the fall.

Now the soul that sins is the soul that will die and we are all sinners in need of Jesus, and praise God that He came to save sinners so repent and live.

1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

 

[MB]

The SOUL that sins shall DIE(does not say physical death says SOUL DEATH

Man was already going to die physically--that is why the tree of life was there--the part of man that was never gonna die was the SOUL--until he ate of the other tree--God removed man from the garden so he could NOT eat of the tree of life--why--because man would never die physically if he ate of the tree of life.it means in Dieing adam SURELY DIED--not just physically BUT SOUL also--this body is not us--just a house we live in:jesus::jesus:

If man's spirit is dead as you claim. Not only he cannot hear or see but he also cannot sin. Think about how many times I've been told by Calvinist that a dead man can't do anything because he is dead . If man is dead as you say, he isn't responsible for the actions he isn't consciously aware of.
MB

 

[HisWitness]

If man's spirit is dead as you claim. Not only he cannot hear or see but he also cannot sin. Think about how many times I've been told by Calvinist that a dead man can't do anything because he is dead . If man is dead as you say, he isn't responsible for the actions he isn't consciously aware of.
MB

he is DEAD at physical death--body,soul,spirit=DEAD--that's why there was a Resurrection

 

[percho]

Will Abraham who died in faith need to be resurrected from the dead to receive the promises?

 

[psalms109:31]

Will Abraham who died in faith need to be resurrected from the dead to receive the promises?

Matthew 17
New International Version (NIV)
The Transfiguration

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Was Moses already resurrected from the dead?

Sometime we spend more time on the mountain top with those who have already been resurrected from the dead because of Jesus instead in the valley with people who need Jesus to do the same for them

 

[MB]

The SOUL that sins shall DIE(does not say physical death says SOUL DEATH

Really? Then how come my Bible say's;
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Man was already going to die physically--that is why the tree of life was there--the part of man that was never gonna die was the SOUL--until he ate of the other tree--God removed man from the garden so he could NOT eat of the tree of life--why--because man would never die physically if he ate of the tree of life.it means in Dieing adam SURELY DIED--not just physically BUT SOUL also--this body is not us--just a house we live in:jesus::jesus:

Nothing you've said here makes any sense. If man's spirit dies so does the man. It's the spirit of man that quickens his flesh. His flesh cannot live with out the spirit. It's true the Bible say's "the soul that sinneth shall die" but it never said that to Adam. He was told he would die and he did. It was in future tense, not right away because, he would have already been dead while God was questioning him.
MB

 

[percho]

Matthew 17
New International Version (NIV)
The Transfiguration

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Was Moses already resurrected from the dead?

Sometime we spend more time on the mountain top with those who have already been resurrected from the dead because of Jesus instead in the valley with people who need Jesus to do the same for them

Moses nor Elijah have been resurrected from the dead.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matt 16:28; 17:1,2
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Would you say that the transfiguration was the coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom?

When the Son of Man comes in his kingdom will all the saints accompany him?
Do you think this will include Elijah and Moses?

Now was this the actual coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom or was it a vision of a future event?

Matt 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.


Originally Posted by percho
Will Abraham who died in faith need to be resurrected from the dead to receive the promises?

 

[psalms109:31]

Moses nor Elijah have been resurrected from the dead.

How did Elijah, die, where is Moses buried?

Would you say that the transfiguration was the coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom?

Yes

When the Son of Man comes in his kingdom will all the saints accompany him?

More than two

Do you think this will include Elijah and Moses?

No, with the vision He was talking to them transfigured already there

Now was this the actual coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom or was it a vision of a future event?

No i do not see it as a future event but it actually happened Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah

Matt 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

A vision is not always of a future event.

Will Abraham who died in faith need to be resurrected from the dead to receive the promises?

What I do know I didn't see Abraham in the Transfiguration we receive the Holy Spirit in our life time, Abraham didn't receive the promise in His lifetime, those who died in faith is in His bosom are asleep and will wake up in His arms.

Where is Abraham's bosom?

We see everything happening in time, is there a time in heaven or is it eternal