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It just amazes me how calvinists can not see the rediculousness of thier theology.
Its almost as if they have been put under a "spell" of some sort. Like being brainwashed.
I was once a calvinist. But thier came a time when I"stepped back" so to speak, and came to grips with...just... exactally what...I...was...believing... and ADVOCATING!!
It was over at that point.
No, they were not trying to make a defective theology, but they succeeded. When someone says choice means non-choice, that is defective. When someone says regeneration outside of being spiritually in Christ that is defective. When someone denies we are chosen through faith in the truth that is defective.
How about John 1:12-13. Does it say we believe before we are given the right to become children of God? Thus all these defective claims that regeneration occurs before we trust in Christ are liberal interpretations, playing fast and loose with scripture.
You once advocated that were all spiritually dead in Adam, born in original Sin, that the lord himself had to intervene to save you, that Jesus died in order to atone for your sins...
that is all Biblical, were you advocating abrand of calvinism not aware of?
Calvinists believe that absolutely nothing happens that God has not foreordained or predestined to happen! If an individual goes to heaven, it is because God predestined that he would, independent of anything this individual would do of his own free will; on the other hand, if an individual goes to hell, it is because God predestined that he would, independent of anything this individual would do of his own free will.
This point is clearly stated in the Westminster Confession:
"Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace."4 It is against such error that this study is dedicated.
...But its the *rest of the story* that causes the whole thing to crash and burn.
Things like this
Calvinists believe that absolutely nothing happens that God has not foreordained or predestined to happen!
If an individual goes to heaven, it is because God predestined that he would, independent of anything this individual would do
Turner makes the mistake of inserting this idea of free will here where the scriptures and the confession do not hold to it/ So he invents a strawman,and does not address the language that was carefully chosen by the men who summed up scriptural teaching....so he refutes nothing but his own imagination.of his own free will;
on the other hand, if an individual goes to hell,
it is because God predestined that he would, independent of anything this individual would do of his own free will.
This point is clearly stated in the Westminster Confession:
It is against such error that this study is dedicated.
AIC....do you believe God is ever surprised? or..something can happen that He has not ordained to happen??? How does anything take place outside of what God has purposed to take place,AIC....explain this...
Then explain how your understanding of this section of scripture...AIC-
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Rev Mitchell posted...
Oh great. :BangHead:
The spelling police are out again. :laugh::laugh::
Brother, we are not writing resumes here. Trust me...I can do much worse then the misspelling you pointed out.
When desperate..ignore content and criticize spelling :thumbs:
AIC...you were never a Calvinist.....never...lol.
Brother iconoclast..
You posted...
Thats all fine and good, but it has no relavance regarding the primary issue, that being..
This unthinkable nonsense of a just and loving God deciding to send millions and millions of people people to hell, even before they were even born...while declaring to us...
"It is not my will that ANYONE BE lost, but that ALL come to REPENTANCE....
And God has given every person who has ever walked this earth the opportunity.
the milk of the gospel
The "L" (limited atonement - Christ died only for the elect) is shown false
The Rev says he is not a Calvinist. Which of the 5 points of the tulip does he consider false doctrine? Answer? I expect none will be forthcoming.
Iconoclast said:It is God's will that many be lost...or Jesus would not have said multitudes will be cast into hell.mt7.21-23.. :wavey:
Rev Mitchell posted...
Oh great. :BangHead:
The spelling police are out again. :laugh::laugh::
Brother, we are not writing resumes here. Trust me...I can do much worse then the misspelling you pointed out.
When desperate..ignore content and criticize spelling :thumbs:
Well, there you go folks, this is the fruit of Calvinism. Icon says it is God's will that multitudes be lost, and he puts a smiley face on it. Horrific.
,Calvinism says the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scripture says
the Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Most of the false teaching here comes from you doing this to all manner of verses. Then you make accusations about the biblical God saying things about Monsters, robots, and parrots.There is a lot of false teachings in the world, but I have never seen anything worse than Calvinism. Calvinism portrays God as an evil monster who delights in destroying men.
Horrific.
And what is worse and far more dangerous than Calvinism is Open theology and the idea that God learns. Heretical in its purist form.
VAN wrote- the milk of the gospel.
There is no such thing in scripture....yet you use it often.
With your ideas....there is no election at all.....it is not needed.
Winman
bearing false witness is sin. My waving to AIC does not equate to putting a smilely face on the judgement......
So you deny MT7:21-23....Jesus speaking to multitudes saying depart from me???? HINT: when Jesus says depart...it is at the white throneand they are being sent to hell justly for their sins...This is exactly God's will at that time.
No...your posts and explanations of scripture say the opposite about 90% of the time.You are a false teacher in that you say what you do...on purpose.You have been corrected many times but ignore all of it.
In the whole revealed will of God, nothing is more distinctly stated, than that God is not willing that any should perish, but is willing that all should come to repentance; and be appeals to his own longsuffering for proof of what he says.1 Nay, seeing that be hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness, by that man whom be hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead: he has added the weight of his infinite authority to the plea of his boundless mercy, and now commands all men everywhere to repent.2
Robert J. Breckinridge
But in Mercy he peculiarly delights. This is his own repeated testimony. He is not willing that any should perish. He affirms that he has no pleasure at all in the death of him that dies. All that he has seen fit to teach us in his Word, respecting his own infinite and holy feelings, gives preeminence to his Mercy.
Icabod Spencer
He, however, is averse to proceed to extremities, till he has used every possible method to re claim sinners, and to open a way for the exercise of his mercy towards them. “He is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness.” He is kept back, not by any conscious weakness, or by indifference, or by fear, or by any other motive which may be supposed to influence us: he is restrained by long-suffering alone, and by a desire to spare those who have deserved punishment.]
He desires to save every child of man–
[“He is not willing that any should perish:” no; he would not that so much as one should ever become a monument of his indignation. This he affirms in the strongest manner; yea, and confirms his assertion with an oath: “As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from his wickedness and live;”1 It is surprising, that any, after such a declaration as this, should maintain the doctrine of absolute reprobation.
Charles Simeon
The bible does not say that anywhere at all....no matter how many times you and others twist 2pet3:9 out of context...it never says it.:thumbs:
The context is clear, the elect are still in view, in contrast to the scoffers.
Most of the false teaching here comes from you doing this to all manner of verses. Then you make accusations about the biblical God saying things about Monsters, robots, and parrots.
You know what is horrific....we tell Roman Catholics that the RC church does not use scripture correctly .Then you post this kind of horrific error so as to not have the word of God at all. Even an unsaved person who can read in context can see your twisting of verses is error.
God's will is done on earth as it is in heaven.At the white throne multitudes will be cast into the lake of fire.That is God's will.
Thankfully God in covenant has elected a multitude to be saved in His Son.
In heaven the elect do not think God's righteous judgement makes Him as you declare...."a monster"...
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
This judgement is as much God's will as salvation of the elect Winman, so no need for you to keep wresting the scriptures out of context.
God's will is always done. It seems you as well as AIC, cannot respond to Isa 46;
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Winman....you complain that no one responds to your posts and the scriptures you "offer". The reason is you twist them all the time.:thumbs:
I deny limited atonement.
I deny irresistible grace.
I deny that God has created some people for the sole purpose of damning them.
I deny the Calvinist definition of the Sovereignty of God and Election.
That will be the last time I will respond to your arrogance. You are worse than Calvinists.
You appear to be an open theist. Does God predestine whatsoever comes to pass, or does He allow men to choose to trust in Him, or to reject Him. If you deny Irresistible Grace, you are an open theist, rather than a "Closed Theist" as are Calvinists.