Featured Atheist Stephen Hawking and Church of Scotland both determined to demonize Israel

Why are Jews and Palestinian DNA the same?

 

Israel is on their own land period. You can say what you want now, but when Jesus returns and rules from the throne of David in a literal and physical way everyone will know then.

 

Yea, and they're slowly methodically committing apartheid and genocide upon their own ancestors who were left behind.

Is there something about Acts 2:29-36;Acts 15:14-17 that you can't understand? Or is it that you choose your 'literal' (read carnal) view over the Biblical rendering?

 

Preterism is not a legitimate view point and has no place in actual true theological discussions. Denying a literal and physical return of Christ is heresy.

 

A non sequitur reply with no scriptural substance to refute anything I posted.

Is that the best you've got?

 

One has to wonder just how scientific any proof would be that the so-called Palestinians--who were not called that until recent times--are really the descendants of ancient Jews. We already know that Jews and Arabs are half-brothers and that Jews in disobedience married non-Jews from time to time. So we would have to say that people who call themselves Jews are those who have a key indicator.

Since Palestinian is the Roman word for Philistine, a Greek peoples from the islands of the Aegean Sea, we know that the Arabs are not the Greeks who used to live in Gaza. So we are dealing with Arabs, who have some 22 nations in a land area the size of the USA.

If some Arabs were in Israel in the 19th century, and Mark Twain says that it was an empty area of wasteland, regardless of their ancestry, they are practicing Muslims now and they themselves have no tradition that they were once Jews. If fact, almost all Jews left around at the time of Muhammad would have been slaughtered when he conquered the Arabian Peninsula so it is doubtful that these people are going to run to Mecca and say that they are really Jews.

As for the verses in Acts, I do not see how they support Supersessionism and they are not the points of dispute. Everyone agrees that Judaism is devoid of Salvation from the Christian viewpoint.

What Christianity is saying is that Abraham and Sarah had millions of descendants most of whom did not convert to Christianity from Judaism but remained physical and religious Jews and that these people are the legitimate heirs of Abraham and Sarah in physical things. Therefore the land is theirs until the end of the world.

Of for the gentile Christian, Paul says in Romans that he is a wild olive branch grafted onto the tree and can be just as easily be cut off again:

Romans 11:17 (KJV) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. Mt 24

It's not 'scientific', but it IS a strong indicator there were those that missed the exile and were left behind.

But your mind is most likely made up as all dispies are; those evil Palestinians 'invaded' the land of Palestine while the virtuous Jews were gone for two millennia.

 

Kyred, I don't know when or how I became a dispensationalist in your opinion, but I doubt if they would claim me, although they are nice people and I sometimes pay attention to them. I am merely saying that Romans teaches that gentiles are grafted branches on a Jewish olive tree; and that the Church of Scotland is wrong in saying that the Promised Land is not modernday Israel but a state of mind; and that modernday Israel is the proper home of Jews who never became Christians.

And no, I don't think that Jesus has returned yet. As far as I know that was a Jesuit Catholic idea to counteract Martin Luther's assertion that Pope Leo X was the anti-Christ.

And no, I think that Israel was mostly empty in the 19th century and a wasteland but began to be populated by Jews who faced a desperate labor shortage and hired a lot of Arabs to help out and then they all flocked in--sort of what we have experienced in the last century with our wide-open southern border (although Truman and Eisenhower did close the border due to recessions). No one wants to live in an Arab state--they are pits with no human rights.

 

The Jews as a covenant nation were broken off and REPLACED:

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21:43

28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Lu 13

If there is to be a 'grafting back in' of them, it will be into the Church of Christ from which they were broken off from, NOT a return to the old theocracy of OT Israel. That's gone forever:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

 

There really is no such thing as a Palestinian. If there were, the closest to it would be the Jew to whom that name was given by Rome to vilify Israel as Philistines. Even prior to the Jews regaining their land, there has never been a Palestinian state or any type of Palestinian government anywhere in Israel.

The PLO or PLA is a network of terrorists, yet recognized as a legitimate spokesperson for the "Palestinians" living in Israel. Since the organic religion for Palestinians is either Islam, then why not offer refuge in the numerous Islamic countries? Why demand that Israel, the size of Rhode Island, continue to make concessions over land that is rightfully theirs?

Israel's enemies have made it perfectly clear that their agenda is to wipe Israel off the map. In America, you have guns and stand on your rights as citizens under the constitution to defend your homes with violence and deadly force if necessary. Should Israel not have that same right to protect their land? Israel has negotiated in treaty after treaty, only to have neighboring terrorists continue to bomb Israel, and then blame Israel for retaliating.

Granted, the current state of Israel does not credit God for our regathering as a nation, nor the conquests that regained Jerusalem. But the bringing of the people of Israel back into her own land was not contingent upon the faithfulness of her citizens, it was to fulfill a promise to Abraham. God will open the eyes of Israel during and after the tribulation, so it would make sense that before that happens, He would gather them all together in one land regardless of whether the current residents have given glory to God and acknowledged that Christ truly is the Messiah.

Nobody has demanded that the United States give the Indians back their land, or give Texas back to Mexico. Yet Israel being the smallest of all the surrounding nations in the Middle East is expected to yield to pressure to provide for those who do not belong here, who are determined to annihilate us, and to give up strategic land areas in Gaza and Golan Heights that are critical to the defense of Israel's borders.

How many lands has any other country given back to the loser during a war? Yet Israel being without a homeland for 2000 years is expected to make unreasonable and unbiblical concessions, and is then vilified for defending herself.

שטויות

For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. Zech 2:8

 

I have written a response to this argument on our website:

Steven Anderson's "After The Tribulation: A Refutation", and

Problems with Preterism (section on "The Church Has Not Replaced Israel"

 

Kyred, you wrote, "If there is to be a 'grafting back in' of them, it will be into the Church of Christ from which they were broken off from, NOT a return to the old theocracy of OT Israel. That's gone forever:"

But Paul says in Romans that Jews were branches broken off from the olive tree (not the Christian Church) and Gentiles were branches from a wild olive tree that were grafted onto the good olive tree. Romans 11:17 (KJV) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Paul says that Christians can be pruned off the olive tree and Jews can be grafted back onto the olive tree.

Romans 11:24 (KJV) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

So the ancient Israeli theocracy has nothing to do with it because the Jews are now blind but can be made to see by God in the case that Christians fail as Jews did. Otherwise, in the course of time Jews will become Christians:

Zechariah 12:9 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.


Zechariah 13:1 (KJV) In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The Jesuit priest was incorrect when he said that Jesus had returned and therefore Pope Leo X was not the anti-Christ.

 

You're a Jew, and you're saying you're the apple of God's eye because you're a Jew?

 

Zechariah was quoted as a general reference to how any nation treats Israel. It was not quoted to show what blessings I have as a Jew which in this age are irrelevant since Israel as a nation is spiritually under blindness (Romans 11:25), and there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal 3:27-28). The only way a Jew is saved in this age is the same way that a Gentile is saved, through Christ.

But Israel's spiritual momentary blindness does not negate the corporate promises that God gave to Israel. Israel is spiritually dead now, but will be raised from the dead during and after the tribulation. Romans 11:15.

 

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

My ASV says that's a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant. What's your KJV say? It also says that under the New Covenant:

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

 

Wonder where they got the idea of 'terrorism' to begin with?....:

SOME EARLY EXAMPLES OF JEWISH-ZIONIST TERROR.

August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.

November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants (see below).

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

THE SS PATRIA.

November 25, 1940. In September, 1940, around 3,000 Jewish refugees from Vienna, Prague and Danzig were attempting to reach Palestine. In a convoy of four river steamers, they set sail down the Danube and reached the Romanian port of Tulcea where they transferred to three Greek cargo ships named Atlantic, Pacific and Milos. Conditions on board these three ships were horrendous, reminiscent of Japanese hell-ships later in the war. Eventually the ships reached Palestinian waters, but the British Colonial Office refused them permission to land. It was finally decided to deport the refugees to the island of Mauritius where a special camp was to be built. The three ships were then brought into Haifa harbour where the liner Patria was berthed. The refugees were then embarked on the Patria and as the last passengers from the Atlantic were coming on board, a tremendous explosion ripped the liner apart. The death toll amounted to 267 refugees killed. The explosion was the work of the Jewish underground army, the Haganah, who had meant only to damage the ship to prevent it sailing but had miscalculated the amount of explosives needed to disable the ship. Many say that this was no miscalculation and was deliberate murder of Jews by Jews, in an attempt to influence British immigration policy to Palestine.

A LIGHT UNTO THE NATIONS.

The first act of air piracy in the history of civil aviation was carried out by Israel, in Dec. 1954, when a civilian Syrian airliner was forced down in Tel Aviv and its passengers and crew held for days, despite international condemnation.

In 1968, Israeli commandos blew up 13 civilian airliners at Beirut airport in Lebanon.

The first deliberate shooting down a civilian airliner was carried out by Israel, when a Libyan airliner was shot down by Israeli jet fighters over Sinai, in Feb. 1973, on the direct orders of Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, killing all 107 of its passengers and the entire French crew.

 

FIRST TERRORIST ACT of the 20th CENTURY

 

All of those verses you quoted were about God proving that everything that God had promised to fulfill that was meant to be fulfilled IN THAT TIME PERIOD were done. That does not mean that prophecies promised to Israel that were yet future were completed somewhere in the OT.

Besides, Isaiah was written 600 years before Christ so if EVERYTHING was fulfilled, then that would have also included all of the prophecies concerning the first coming of Christ.

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." Romans 11:1-2

"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" Romans 11:15

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" Romans 11:26-27

"And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever." Isaiah 59:20-21

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them" Hebrews 10:16

Notice Hebrews 10:16 is first: TO HEBREWS not the church, and it is a FUTURE promise that has not been fulfilled.

 

Hitler was real good as making public declarations about Jewish "terrorists" as well.

 

Ever notice how these racist Aryan and Klan statistics don't point out that all of these "terrorist" attacks were against those who have been attacking Israel for 1500 years and attempted to prevent Balfour from granting them any land, and then continued to attack them when they returned.

Yet REAL terrorist attacks by Muslims target anyone that isn't Islamic. Big difference between killing someone because you are in a state of war with them that THEY STARTED, and randomly killing people because they don't believe in Allah.

But nevertheless, it wouldn't make any difference if Israel DID initiate these acts, I am not arguing that Israel is a perfect sinless nation (anymore than YOURS is) and stated clearly that Israel is under spiritual blindness, but they will be restored again during the tribulation.