What evangelists will tell you, but pastors very rarely do

[evangelist-7]

“Go therefore and make DISCIPLES of all the nations …
teaching them to observe ALL things that I have commanded you” (Matt 28:19-20)

An old rationalization … It is NOT required to be a disciple to make heaven,
i.e. why not just cruise on the easy OSAS road? (which actually is the broad road)

The main job of a disciple is to OBEY.
IMO, obedient disciples are the only ones Jesus intends to be in heaven.
Side trip: What are we going to do with “all the nations”?
IMO, God desires to save “some” people from every “nation” (small people group).

These “some” are given the free gift of grace-faith, but this just gets them started!

Sanctification consists of 2 stages:
positional (set apart) sanctification …and… progressive sanctification.

“For many are called, but few chosen” (Matt 20:16)
GROUP-1 … IMO, the few called-and-chosen refers to God’s elect in Rom 8:28-30.
GROUP-2 … the many called-but-not-chosen have done their own choosing
to not develop a close personal relationship with the Lord, and
to not co-operate with the Holy Spirit in the sanctification process.

Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).

Group-1 obedient disciples will perseverse all the way through to the end (Heb 3:14).
“He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (Heb 10:14)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)
Progressive sanctification ties in with several demanding verses, such as:
“Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” (Heb 12:14)
“… having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness,
and the end, everlasting life.” (Rom 6:22)

“the Helper … He will convict the world of sin” (John 16:7-8)
He will convict everyone of their sin: the unsaved, the born-again, everyone.
The GOAL is to eliminate sin … with the indispensible help of the Holy Spirit.
Believers are convicted by God’s Spirit, but they must be willing to co-operate.

All of the above falls in line with the great multitude of warnings about not sinning.

Paul instructs the church: “beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness
of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Cor 7:1).
“For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Cor 7:10).

John instructs the church: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).
Do this to invoke (apply) the cleansing power of the precious blood of Jesus.

In the NT we have this incredible mixture of Blessings, Explanations,
Exhortations … and Warnings that the Blessings are conditional.

The simple Blessings are hooks to catch the little fishes.
Then Jesus Warns to first count the cost of discipleship.
Paul constantly gives Exhortations and encouragement.
And we are Warned that the Blessings are conditional.

All of the many dozens of Warnings are there for a reason!
“Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.” (2 Cor 13:5)
“be even more diligent to make your call and election sure” (2 Pet 1:10)
An example of a Warning in the form of an optimistic Exhortation:
“But we are not of those who draw back (from living by faith) to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.” (Heb 10:39)

 

[Yeshua1]

“Go therefore and make DISCIPLES of all the nations …
teaching them to observe ALL things that I have commanded you” (Matt 28:19-20)

An old rationalization … It is NOT required to be a disciple to make heaven,
i.e. why not just cruise on the easy OSAS road? (which actually is the broad road)

The main job of a disciple is to OBEY.
IMO, obedient disciples are the only ones Jesus intends to be in heaven.
Side trip: What are we going to do with “all the nations”?
IMO, God desires to save “some” people from every “nation” (small people group).

These “some” are given the free gift of grace-faith, but this just gets them started!

Sanctification consists of 2 stages:
positional (set apart) sanctification …and… progressive sanctification.

“For many are called, but few chosen” (Matt 20:16)
GROUP-1 … IMO, the few called-and-chosen refers to God’s elect in Rom 8:28-30.
GROUP-2 … the many called-but-not-chosen have done their own choosing
to not develop a close personal relationship with the Lord, and
to not co-operate with the Holy Spirit in the sanctification process.

Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).

Group-1 obedient disciples will perseverse all the way through to the end (Heb 3:14).
“He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (Heb 10:14)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)
Progressive sanctification ties in with several demanding verses, such as:
“Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” (Heb 12:14)
“… having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness,
and the end, everlasting life.” (Rom 6:22)

“the Helper … He will convict the world of sin” (John 16:7-8)
He will convict everyone of their sin: the unsaved, the born-again, everyone.
The GOAL is to eliminate sin … with the indispensible help of the Holy Spirit.
Believers are convicted by God’s Spirit, but they must be willing to co-operate.

All of the above falls in line with the great multitude of warnings about not sinning.

Paul instructs the church: “beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness
of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Cor 7:1).
“For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Cor 7:10).

John instructs the church: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).
Do this to invoke (apply) the cleansing power of the precious blood of Jesus.

In the NT we have this incredible mixture of Blessings, Explanations,
Exhortations … and Warnings that the Blessings are conditional.

The simple Blessings are hooks to catch the little fishes.
Then Jesus Warns to first count the cost of discipleship.
Paul constantly gives Exhortations and encouragement.
And we are Warned that the Blessings are conditional.

All of the many dozens of Warnings are there for a reason!
“Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.” (2 Cor 13:5)
“be even more diligent to make your call and election sure” (2 Pet 1:10)
An example of a Warning in the form of an optimistic Exhortation:
“But we are not of those who draw back (from living by faith) to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.” (Heb 10:39)

You keep misunderstanding!
jesus said, again, that ALL who come unto him he will raise up, NONE shall be lost again, and he will NOT cast out any who comes to him!

 

[BobRyan]

You keep misunderstanding!
jesus said, again, that ALL who come unto him he will raise up, NONE shall be lost again, and he will NOT cast out any who comes to him!

You keep holding up your misread - your misapprehension of that one not-quoted statement as the excuse to ignore all of scripture telling you that your misread of Christ in that regard opposes every rule of exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

You keep holding up your misread - your misapprehension of that one not-quoted statement as the excuse to ignore all of scripture telling you that your misread of Christ in that regard opposes every rule of exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

jesus said that he will lose NONE that he saves, ALL saved shall be raised, and that he will not cast any out!

pretty clear to me, how about you?

 

[Alive in Christ]

jesus said that he will lose NONE that he saves, ALL saved shall be raised, and that he will not cast any out!

pretty clear to me, how about you?

Clear as bell.

Those who choose Christ are sealed "in" Christ and can never be lost.

Those who fail to place thier faith in Christ are eternally lost.

 

[Wherever You Go]

You can not first know Christ and then not know Him. If you know Him, He knows you. "My sheep are mine, and I know them"

At judgment time, He will say to those who failed to trust Him and His shed blood for their salvation: "Depart from me, ye who work iniquity, i NEVER knew you."

He does not say, "I knew you once, but I don't know you now."

The main thing is to make sure you know Him, and He knows you. If you know Him, He will guide and direct you to all good works, and to grow in your spiritual walk.

 

[annsni]

Hubby taught on John 10 and Jesus calling Himself the Good Shepherd and I thought about the parable of the lost sheep. So how many sheep does the shepherd allow to say "Eh - I don't want to be part of this flock anymore. I'm leaving." and let them go?

 

[evangelist-7]

Hubby taught on John 10 and Jesus calling Himself the Good Shepherd and I thought about the parable of the lost sheep. So how many sheep does the shepherd allow to say "Eh - I don't want to be part of this flock anymore. I'm leaving." and let them go?

An excellent point ... something to really consider re: these matters.
Just how am I going to deal with this? ... That is the question.
REALLY understanding shepherds and sheep is very enlightening.
Unfortunately, it's not part of our culture!

Right now, I'd have to say ...

A sheep could be enticed into straying ... and be killed before returning.
There's a possibility the shepherd could not find it in time to save it.

Also, do all BACs have the same dependency on Jesus as sheep do with their shepherd?
I'd have to say NO ... they have a sin nature, more intellect, more enticements, etc.
.

 

[annsni]

An excellent point ... something to really consider re: these matters.
Just how am I going to deal with this? ... That is the question.
REALLY understanding shepherds and sheep is very enlightening.
Unfortunately, it's not part of our culture!

Right now, I'd have to say ...

A sheep could be enticed into straying ... and be killed before returning.
There's a possibility the shepherd could not find it in time to save it.

Also, do all BACs have the same dependency on Jesus as sheep do with their shepherd?
I'd have to say NO ... they have a sin nature, more intellect, more enticements, etc.
.

If the sheep were killed when it wandered outside the fold, would it have no longer belonged to the shepherd?

 

[Yeshua1]

An excellent point ... something to really consider re: these matters.
Just how am I going to deal with this? ... That is the question.
REALLY understanding shepherds and sheep is very enlightening.
Unfortunately, it's not part of our culture!

Right now, I'd have to say ...

A sheep could be enticed into straying ... and be killed before returning.
There's a possibility the shepherd could not find it in time to save it.

Also, do all BACs have the same dependency on Jesus as sheep do with their shepherd?
I'd have to say NO ... they have a sin nature, more intellect, more enticements, etc.
.

jesus that his sheep know him and SHALL follow him, NOT wander off to follow another shepherd!

How many times are you going to go against clear teaching regarding this?

 

[evangelist-7]

If the sheep were killed when it wandered outside the fold, would it have no longer belonged to the shepherd?

Yes, of course.

However ... Jesus, Paul, and Peter all give specific examples of disobedient believers who lose eternal life.
Please see the new thread on Specific Threats.
.

 

[annsni]

Yes, of course.

However ... Jesus, Paul, and Peter all give specific examples of disobedient believers who lose eternal life.
Please see the new thread on Specific Threats.
.

They were disobedient church goers but did they have eternal life and lose it? I don't think so.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, of course.

However ... Jesus, Paul, and Peter all give specific examples of disobedient believers who lose eternal life.
Please see the new thread on Specific Threats.
.

Hello E-7,

I am reading your responses here as well as your OP.

I'm gathering that you are helping Christ save you in what you are saying, correct? That is that His Work is only part of it, and you must do the rest and contribute to saving yourself?

 

[evangelist-7]

Hello E-7,
I am reading your responses here as well as your OP.
I'm gathering that you are helping Christ save you in what you are saying, correct?
That is that His Work is only part of it, and you must do the rest and contribute to saving yourself?

I've already responded, but somehow it got lost.
In short, what I'm doing is presenting dozens of NT warnings to BACs.
So, just please tell me what they are all about?
.

 

[preacher4truth]

I've already responded, but somehow it got lost.
In short, what I'm doing is presenting dozens of NT warnings to BACs.
So, just please tell me what they are all about?
.

Sure, I've already stated that I've seen what you've presented. Did you not see that statement? Now kindly and directly answer the questions I've given you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Didn't Jesus say that of all that the Father has given Him, he would lose none? -- John 6:39

But now we have one coming after Jesus saying that is not so, that He will in fact lose some?

Hmmmmm. Wonder which one is correct here?

By the way, the list of 'warning' passages given by our OP in the sister thread 'Specific threats to Christians about losing eternal life!' are 1) Paraphrased to give them new meanings to support the false presupposition of E-7; 2) Taken out of context.

- Blessings

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure, I've already stated that I've seen what you've presented. Did you not see that statement? Now kindly and directly answer the questions I've given you.

Basic problem is that you view saunctification first done, that results in justification, backwards of what paul said!

 

[evangelist-7]

John 3:
16 ... whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 6:
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me,
that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me,
that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

We have gone from:
(1) ... John 3 ... the BIG HOOK, which is used to catch the little fishes
(2) ... John 6 ... to a little more detailed explanation of things
(3) ... John 10 ... and finally to an even more detailed explanation

The dreaded notes on (3)
-- How many of you have heard God's voice clearly?
-- How many of you "know" Jesus, as in an intimate relationship?
-- How many of you "follow" Jesus, as in obeying His commandments?
-- Such as "Be holy" and "Be perfect" ... and Paul insists on the same things.

(3) refers to the real elect of God.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

John 3:
16 ... whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 6:
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me,
that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me,
that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

We have gone from:
(1) ... John 3 ... the BIG HOOK, which is used to catch the little fishes
(2) ... John 6 ... to a little more detailed explanation of things
(3) ... John 10 ... and finally to an even more detailed explanation

The dreaded notes on (3)
-- How many of you have heard God's voice clearly?
-- How many of you "know" Jesus, as in an intimate relationship?
-- How many of you "follow" Jesus, as in obeying His commandments?
-- Such as "Be holy" and "Be perfect" ... and Paul insists on the same things.

(3) refers to the real elect of God.
.

There are ONLY the elect of God, not false/real ones!

IF you are basing getting saved on becoming as Holy and perfect as God...

You will not make it, neither will I or any here!

 

[preacher4truth]

Basic problem is that you view saunctification first done, that results in justification, backwards of what paul said!

I think you meant that for someone else.

- Blessings