Accursed - Gal. 1:8-9

[The Biblicist]

So faith is the causal agent, and works is an outworking or proof of the faith.

Exactly. Works are not involved in the act of justification before God because justification is based solely upon the acts of Christ in behalf of the "ungodly" only receivd by the "ungodly" by faith (Rom. 4:5).

However, that act of justification is not "without works" as consequences - Eph. 2:10 "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works." Justification by faith the cause, works the consequences.

james point is where there are no manifest consequences (works) there is no reason to believe their is true faith or spiritual life. He is speaking on a horizontal level between men (vv. 14-16).

Because it is an inheritance, you do not have to qualify by any works to receive it. You qualify as a spiritual descendant of Abraham by having the same faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ that Abraham had.

Even though Ishmael was the rightful biological (legal) heir,

Here is where I disagree with you. Ishmael was an ILLEGAL heir. God never approved polygamy. He was born out of marriage. The marriage law specifically says the "TWAIN shall be ONE flesh" not the "THREE" or four or five as illustrated by Solomon.

Romans 9 defines the true heirs of the promise in regard to national Israel. Simple physical birth does not qualify any Jew to be the Israel of God. They must be born of flesh and of the Spirit to qualify.

 

[Yeshua1]

Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1. No one on this board can honestly deny that Paul is speaking of a trivial non-essential matter.

2. No one on this board can honestly assert that the gospel of justification by faith without works is the same or similar to a gospel of justificaton by faith with works.

3. Therefore, it is not name calling, but is the absolute essential demand of Scriptures that either those preaching one of these gospel's is to be regarded as "Let him be" accursed and that is a very serious matter.

4. Neither can anyone logically deny that the Scriptures speak of only TWO POSSIBLE ways/gospels and they are in direct contradiction to each other in regard to both essence and consequences (Mt. 7:12-13; Rom. 11:6; Eph. 2:8-9).

5. Neither can anyone logically deny that the "accursed" gospel is the one that is inclusive of some kind of works as Romans 3-4 and Galatians 1-4 are all condemning that gospel which includes some manner of justification by works. This cannot be true of the only alternative as it is a gospel "without works."

6. The two different gospels, ways, justification are contrasted by the terms "grace" versus "works" and so the false gospel, false justification, false way necessarily is inclusive of works. Thus "saved by grace....not of works" and "worketh not but justifieth...without works" is the alternative of this contrast.

Therefore, if there are only TWO possible ways, TWO possible gospels and justification by faith without works is contradictory to justificaiton by faith with works, and the accursed is the one that includes works - then it should be obvious which of the only two possible gospels is the accursed one.

basically, does my faith cause my regeneration in Jesus, or does my regeneration cause my faith in Christ?

 

[Gup20]

Here is where I disagree with you. Ishmael was an ILLEGAL heir. God never approved polygamy. He was born out of marriage. The marriage law specifically says the "TWAIN shall be ONE flesh" not the "THREE" or four or five as illustrated by Solomon.

Romans 9 defines the true heirs of the promise in regard to national Israel. Simple physical birth does not qualify any Jew to be the Israel of God. They must be born of flesh and of the Spirit to qualify.

Well my point was that Ishmael had a legal claim as an heir:

Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.​

The implication here is that, had he not been cast out he would have had an inheritance with Isaac.

You know, this may be off topic, but I also find this interesting:

According to Paul in Galatians 4, Ishmael represents the biological seed of Abraham, and the Law of Moses whereas Isaac represents the spiritual seed of Abraham. Puts this in a different light:

Gen 17:5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 17:18 And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!"
19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.
20 "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
21 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."
​

Doesn't it seem clear that God is talking about the nation of Israel here - that they would be "a great nation" (singular) with 12 princes?

 

[The Biblicist]

You know, this may be off topic, but I also find this interesting:

According to Paul in Galatians 4, Ishmael represents the biological seed of Abraham, and the Law of Moses whereas Isaac represents the spiritual seed of Abraham. Puts this in a different light:

Gen 17:5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 17:18 And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!"
19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.
20 "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
21 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."
​

Doesn't it seem clear that God is talking about the nation of Israel here - that they would be "a great nation" (singular) with 12 princes?

Yes, I agree.

 

[BobRyan]

You have not interpreted The Baptist Confession of Faith you refer to correctly. It does on teach what you are claiming it to teach. They do not teach keeping the ten commandments saves anyone

Is this the part where you quote me as saying "Keeping the ten commandments saves someone".

Because if you have a "keeping the ten commandments saves" statement from me - I would like to read it.

As of this point you have not interpreted my statements correctly if you have bent them out that far from the actual text.

nor that the final decision for heaven or hell is determined at Judgment day. They teach no such thing. They carefully teach that the only thing determined on judgment day is the determination of REWARDS.

here you would have done better to not mention that point rather than to directly contradict the Baptist Confession of Faith on that very subject.

=======================

[FONT=&quot]Chapter 32
THE LAST JUDGMENT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32.1 God has appointed a day when he will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, to whom the Father has given all power and judgment.1 On that day, not only the apostate angels will be judged,2 but also all people who have lived on the earth. They will appear before Christ's judgment throne3 to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and to receive [judgment] according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.4[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Joh 5:22,27; Act 17:31
(2) 1Co 6:3; Jude 1:6
(3) Mat 16:27; 25:31-46; Act 17:30-31; Rom 2:6-16; 2Th 1:5-10; 2Pe 3:1-13; Rev 20:11-15
(4) 2Co 5:10; 1Co 4:5; Mat 12:36 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

32.2 God's purpose in appointing this day is to show forth the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect, and his justice in the eternal damnation of the reprobate who are wicked and disobedient.1 Then the righteous will inherit eternal life and receive fullness of joy and glory with eternal reward in the presence of the Lord. But the wicked, who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, will be banished to eternal torment, and be punished with eternal destruction, shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power.2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Rom 9:22-23
(2) Mat 18:8; 25:41,46; 2Th 1:9; Heb 6:2; Jude 1:6; Rev 14:10-11; Luk 3:17; Mar 9:43,48; Mat 3:12; 5:26; 13:41-42; 24:51; 25:30 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

32.3 Christ wants us to be firmly persuaded that there will be a day of judgment, both to deter everyone from sin,1 and to give greater comfort to the godly in their adversity.2 But he has kept the date a secret, so that people may shake off all self-confidence and always be watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come.3 So they should always be prepared to say, 'Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!'4 Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) 2Co 5:10-11
(2) 2Th 1:5-7
(3) Mar 13:35-37; Luk 12:35-40
(4) Rev 22:20 [/FONT]

 

[The Biblicist]

here you would have done better to not mention that point rather than to directly contradict the Baptist Confession of Faith on that very subject.

=======================

[FONT=&quot]Chapter 32
THE LAST JUDGMENT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32.1 God has appointed a day when he will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, to whom the Father has given all power and judgment.1 On that day, not only the apostate angels will be judged,2 but also all people who have lived on the earth. They will appear before Christ's judgment throne3 to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and to receive [judgment] according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.4[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Joh 5:22,27; Act 17:31
(2) 1Co 6:3; Jude 1:6
(3) Mat 16:27; 25:31-46; Act 17:30-31; Rom 2:6-16; 2Th 1:5-10; 2Pe 3:1-13; Rev 20:11-15
(4) 2Co 5:10; 1Co 4:5; Mat 12:36 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

YOu don't understand their theological language! By "world" they are referring to the LOST world not the saved. If you will look at their article on election you will see that they use the term "world" in apposition to the "elect."

32.2 God's purpose in appointing this day is to show forth the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect, and his justice in the eternal damnation of the reprobate who are wicked and disobedient.1 Then the righteous will inherit eternal life and receive fullness of joy and glory with eternal reward in the presence of the Lord. But the wicked, who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, will be banished to eternal torment, and be punished with eternal destruction, shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power.2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Rom 9:22-23
(2) Mat 18:8; 25:41,46; 2Th 1:9; Heb 6:2; Jude 1:6; Rev 14:10-11; Luk 3:17; Mar 9:43,48; Mat 3:12; 5:26; 13:41-42; 24:51; 25:30 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Again, you don't understand their theological language. In regard to the "elect" that day "SHOWS FORTH the glory of HIS MERCY" rather than determining whether they are saved. Baptist believe the nature of their eternal destiny is determined at faith and revealed first in the resurrection not the day of judgment. The elect are RAISED to eternal life while the non-elect are RAISED unto damnation and the proof is the elect are RAISED with GLORIFIED BODIES before they stand before the Lord and therefore the judgement simply SHOWS FORTH His mercy and the only judgment is in regard to REWARDS - Period.

32.3 Christ wants us to be firmly persuaded that there will be a day of judgment, both to deter everyone from sin,1 and to give greater comfort to the godly in their adversity.2 But he has kept the date a secret, so that people may shake off all self-confidence and always be watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come.3 So they should always be prepared to say, 'Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!'4 Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) 2Co 5:10-11
(2) 2Th 1:5-7
(3) Mar 13:35-37; Luk 12:35-40
(4) Rev 22:20 [/FONT]

There is not a single word stated above, even those you have emphasized in red, that teaches he will judge Christians for anything other than for rewards. Of course, we will be rewarded according to our works, therefore the nature of our works will be examined, but not in regard to salvation. Baptists do not believe, never have beleived, that judgment day determines their salvation but only REVEALS it.

 

[Yeshua1]

YOu don't understand their theological language! By "world" they are referring to the LOST world not the saved. If you will look at their article on election you will see that they use the term "world" in apposition to the "elect."



Again, you don't understand their theological language. In regard to the "elect" that day "SHOWS FORTH the glory of HIS MERCY" rather than determining whether they are saved. Baptist believe the nature of their eternal destiny is determined at faith and revealed first in the resurrection not the day of judgment. The elect are RAISED to eternal life while the non-elect are RAISED unto damnation and the proof is the elect are RAISED with GLORIFIED BODIES before they stand before the Lord and therefore the judgement simply SHOWS FORTH His mercy and the only judgment is in regard to REWARDS - Period.



There is not a single word stated above, even those you have emphasized in red, that teaches he will judge Christians for anything other than for rewards. Of course, we will be rewarded according to our works, therefore the nature of our works will be examined, but not in regard to salvation. Baptists do not believe, never have beleived, that judgment day determines their salvation but only REVEALS it.

jesus said that he will cast out NONE who come to him, ALl shall be raised
We HAVE BEEN, accomplished already, translated from satan to Chrsit Kingdom
Sealed by the HS, Romans times unbreakable permanent act
We HAVE ALREADY passed from death to life, God has already jusged us for the sin issue, for Jesus paid it ALL

 

[The Biblicist]

jesus said that he will cast out NONE who come to him, ALl shall be raised
We HAVE BEEN, accomplished already, translated from satan to Chrsit Kingdom
Sealed by the HS, Romans times unbreakable permanent act
We HAVE ALREADY passed from death to life, God has already jusged us for the sin issue, for Jesus paid it ALL

That is precisely why in the resurrection we possess a glorified body BEFORE standing before the Lord in Judgment. The judgment merely manifests our glorified standing and our works only play a role in future rewards but NEVER FUTURE DESTINATION as our glorified body demonstrates that already.