When you loose your salvation...

[Salty]

For those of you who believe you can loose your salvation: after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

For those of you who believe you can loose your salvation: after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

I wanted to respond to your post, as I hate to see somebody post something and not get an answer. However, I cannot provide you with an adequate answer based on your phrasing of the question since I don't believe you can lose your salvation, but that you can forfeit it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This is very confusing to me Tom....If you are born again of God, how can you even possibly forfeit your birthright? Vexing!!!

1 John 3:6-9

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

This is very confusing to me Tom....If you are born again of God, how can you even possibly forfeit your birthright? Vexing!!!

1 John 3:6-9

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

First, I believe those verses are referring to habitual sin.

Secondly, I believe that even those who are born of God are still able to willfully reject their standing with God, as Adam did, and as Lucifer did. I believe they are still able to willfully turn their back on God and remain unrepentant. That's how I believe they can forfeit their salvation.

 

[The Biblicist]

First, I believe those verses are referring to habitual sin.

Secondly, I believe that even those who are born of God are still able to willfully reject their standing with God, as Adam did, and as Lucifer did. I believe they are still able to willfully turn their back on God and remain unrepentant. That's how I believe they can forfeit their salvation.

John says what is born of Spirit is "spirit" - Jn. 3:6. John and Peter say what is born of God is born of an "incorruptible seed" 1 Pet. 1:23,25; 1 John 3:9 and Col. 3:10 and Eph. 4:24 describe what is born again as "created in true righteousness and holiness" as the renewed IMAGE OF GOD whereas Peter describes it as the "divine nature." Paul describes it as a "washing....and renewing."

In other words, what is born of God is created in a state of SINLESSNESS and kept by the POWER of God not our power including "will" power.

Second, our body has not been born of God and neither has our soul. The body salvation is future tense at the glorification/resurrection. The soul salvation is present tense and can be daily lost or saved as we redeem "the time" (Eph. 5:16).

You are confusing the present tense salvation with the past tense which is a completed action.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

John says what is born of Spirit is "spirit" - Jn. 3:6. John and Peter say what is born of God is born of an "incorruptible seed" 1 Pet. 1:23,25; 1 John 3:9 and Col. 3:10 and Eph. 4:24 describe what is born again as "created in true righteousness and holiness" as the renewed IMAGE OF GOD whereas Peter describes it as the "divine nature." Paul describes it as a "washing....and renewing."

In other words, what is born of God is created in a state of SINLESSNESS and kept by the POWER of God not our power including "will" power.

Second, our body has not been born of God and neither has our soul. The body salvation is future tense at the glorification/resurrection. The soul salvation is present tense and can be daily lost or saved as we redeem "the time" (Eph. 5:16).

You are confusing the present tense salvation with the past tense which is a completed action.

Thanks for the explanation:smilewinkgrin:... you beat me to it.
On another note, Welcome Back! Always enjoy dialogging with you.

 

[steaver]

Secondly, I believe that even those who are born of God are still able to willfully reject their standing with God, as Adam did, and as Lucifer did. I believe they are still able to willfully turn their back on God and remain unrepentant. That's how I believe they can forfeit their salvation.

As I said many times, if one would study all the scriptures which dealt specifically with born-again, one would then understand OSAS.

Adam was never born-again. Satan was never born-again. To use them as examples of a born-again believer "rejecting their standing with God" is basing your pov on a false premise.

Born of God is a post Resurrection/Glorification of Jesus Christ dispensation. Until this event was completed God could not live in sinful man!! God could move the hearts of men, God could be "with" the hearts of men, but could not live in them, two as one, as He has desired from the beginning, which has been accomplished through the provisions fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

Thanks for the explanation:smilewinkgrin:... you beat me to it.
On another note, Welcome Back! Always enjoy dialogging with you.

Thanks! I am not so sure all are happy to see me back.

 

[The Biblicist]

As I said many times, if one would study all the scriptures which dealt specifically with born-again, one would then understand OSAS.

Adam was never born-again. Satan was never born-again. To use them as examples of a born-again believer "rejecting their standing with God" is basing your pov on a false premise.

Born of God is a post Resurrection/Glorification of Jesus Christ dispensation. Until this event was completed God could not live in sinful man!! God could move the hearts of men, God could be "with" the hearts of men, but could not live in them, two as one, as He has desired from the beginning, which has been accomplished through the provisions fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

yes, that is the key to correctly understanding OSAS.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks! I am not so sure all are happy to see me back.

There Problem & loss! :thumbs:

 

[RLBosley]

Adam was never born-again. Satan was never born-again. To use them as examples of a born-again believer "rejecting their standing with God" is basing your pov on a false premise.

Born of God is a post Resurrection/Glorification of Jesus Christ dispensation. Until this event was completed God could not live in sinful man!! God could move the hearts of men, God could be "with" the hearts of men, but could not live in them, two as one, as He has desired from the beginning, which has been accomplished through the provisions fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Precisely! Adam and Lucifer were created in a right relationship with God. That right relationship was in them from the start and that's what they gave up when they rebelled (each in their own way). We however, believers, have never by nature had a right relationship with God. Instead we have been "redeemed"- we have been purchased with a price! We have nothing to loose or forfeit because God did it all in us!

(BTW - I'm not using the '!' in an agry "You ought to know this!' sort of way. Instead It is such an AMAZING, wonderful truth that if we were in person I'd be almost shouting.. here I must settle for exclamation points. )

 

[Thomas Helwys]

No one can prove by scripture or anything else that God ever takes away man's ability and right to choose. To do so would be to deny His very nature and essence, an inherent impossibility. To hold to OSAS means to have a determinist view of God.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Thomas, do you have children?

If so, at what point do they cease being your sons? When the lie to you? When they steal? Can any of those children become unborn? At what point do you cease being their dad.

Of course not!

And neither can those who have been born from above. We were birthed into God's family through faith in His Son Jesus Christ. We can never be unborn.

God will never cease being the Father of those who have been born from above.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good analogy Fred:thumbs:

 

[Salty]

TIME OUT!!!

I am not asking to defend or oppose OSAS-
I simply would like for the NON-OSAS group to answer my OP - and so you don't have to go back to post # 1 - here are the questions again:
after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

Its very simple - just answer the question asked - please if you want to answer a question not in the OP - start a new thread?

TIME IN

 

[drfuss]

TIME OUT!!!

I am not asking to defend or oppose OSAS-
I simply would like for the NON-OSAS group to answer my OP - and so you don't have to go back to post # 1 - here are the questions again:
after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

Its very simple - just answer the question asked - please if you want to answer a question not in the OP - start a new thread?



TIME IN

I am not sure what you mean by lost your salvation. If you really mean forfeit your salvation which means apostasy, then my answer is yes. That would mean you again choose to believe, so you should again be baptized, etc.

If you mean lose your salvation while still.trusting In Christ, I do not know. Maybe a united Methodist or Nazarene could answer that.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Thomas, do you have children?

If so, at what point do they cease being your sons? When the lie to you? When they steal? Can any of those children become unborn? At what point do you cease being their dad.

Of course not!

And neither can those who have been born from above. We were birthed into God's family through faith in His Son Jesus Christ. We can never be unborn.

God will never cease being the Father of those who have been born from above.

You cannot compare physical birth and spiritual birth. Physical children have no choice in their birth. Spiritual children do.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Good analogy Fred:thumbs:

Actually, it is a very poor and inappropriate analogy, as the comparison between physical and spiritual is not valid.

 

[Salty]

I am not sure what you mean by lost your salvation. If you really mean forfeit your salvation which means apostasy, then my answer is yes. That would mean you again choose to believe, so you should again be baptized, etc.

If you mean lose your salvation while still.trusting In Christ, I do not know. Maybe a united Methodist or Nazarene could answer that.

Some on this board belive that a sin can cause you to loose your salvation - my questions are posed to them. Still waiting on an answer.

 

[The Biblicist]

You cannot compare physical birth and spiritual birth. Physical children have no choice in their birth. Spiritual children do.

The human will plays no part in new birth - Jn. 1:13; Rom. 9:16; 8:7-8 but is consequential (Jn. 1:12).