When you loose your salvation...

[Zenas]

For those of you who believe you can loose your salvation: after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

Salty, it seems like no one wants to address your question. Since I am in the camp of which you speak, I will try to do so.

1. Most people who believe you can lose your salvation also believe in baptismal regeneration. For these people baptism a second time is as useless as getting circumcised a second time, actually impossible. Of course, losing one's salvation doesn't nullify 1 John 1:9 so forgiveness is very possible provided you have been baptized once.

However, for those who don't believe in baptismal regeneration (e.g.., Free Will Baptists), the practice could vary widely. If the person coming back in wanted to be re baptized most churches would do it. Some may even require it if the person had been removed from the church roll.

2. This presumes that one has been removed from church membership. That happens only once every century or so in my church. Frankly I see no connection between losing salvation and being removed from church membership.

3. Same as my answer to No. 2, supra.

 

[Zenas]

Thomas, do you have children?

If so, at what point do they cease being your sons? When the lie to you? When they steal? Can any of those children become unborn? At what point do you cease being their dad.

Of course not!

And neither can those who have been born from above. We were birthed into God's family through faith in His Son Jesus Christ. We can never be unborn.

God will never cease being the Father of those who have been born from above.

Come on now, Fred. Haven't you ever seen a parent give up on an obstreperous child and deprive them of their inheritance by leaving it all to someone else? Believe me, it happens every day. The child is still a child but no longer an heir.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually, it is a very poor and inappropriate analogy, as the comparison between physical and spiritual is not valid.

Why not.... Christ does it through parables multiple times.

 

[Salty]

Salty, it seems like no one wants to address your question. Since I am in the camp of which you speak, I will try to do so. ...

Zenas -
Thank you for your answer.

I suppose the point I am getting at is that Baptism is unnecessary until salvation. - Thus it would appear that if salvation is lost - than that baptism would be loss.

Interesting comparison with circumcism- of course, physically it can only be done once.

 

[Zenas]

Zenas -
Thank you for your answer.

I suppose the point I am getting at is that Baptism is unnecessary until salvation. - Thus it would appear that if salvation is lost - than that baptism would be loss.

I would agree if I thought baptism was a public statement of one's faith and no more. Having renounced your faith, you would a fortiori have renounced your public demonstration of that faith. But what about the person who never renounces his faith but leads a life of sin leading to perdition?

Interesting comparison with circumcism- of course, physically it can only be done once.

"[A]nd in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Colossians 2:11-12.

 

[steaver]

Come on now, Fred. Haven't you ever seen a parent give up on an obstreperous child and deprive them of their inheritance by leaving it all to someone else? Believe me, it happens every day. The child is still a child but no longer an heir.

Are you saying then a person can be a child of God but not an heir of God?

 

[Zenas]

Are you saying then a person can be a child of God but not an heir of God?

Absolutely yes. I am a child of my father but when he leaves everything he owns to someone else I am no longer his heir. However, if he changes his will again to include me, I am once again his heir. It's a no brainer.

Similarly, God can and does blot you out of the book of life. (I don't mean you, Steaver, specifically but a generic "you" than can be anyone.)

 

[steaver]

Absolutely yes. I am a child of my father but when he leaves everything he owns to someone else I am no longer his heir. However, if he changes his will again to include me, I am once again his heir. It's a no brainer.

Similarly, God can and does blot you out of the book of life. (I don't mean you, Steaver, specifically but a generic "you" than can be anyone.)

But then God would be sending His child to hell, does that make sense?

 

[Zenas]

But then God would be sending His child to hell, does that make sense?

Let me put it this way. Who is worse, an enemy combatant or a traitor? The unsaved are enemy combatants, but the fallen from grace are your own people who have turned against you--traitors! Enemy combatants are normally held prisoner until the war is over but traitors are put to death.

So of course it makes sense for God to send His child to hell. Once again, a no brainer.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Why not.... Christ does it through parables multiple times.

I think you are not getting my meaning.

Take care, friend.

 

[steaver]

Let me put it this way. Who is worse, an enemy combatant or a traitor? The unsaved are enemy combatants, but the fallen from grace are your own people who have turned against you--traitors! Enemy combatants are normally held prisoner until the war is over but traitors are put to death.

So of course it makes sense for God to send His child to hell. Once again, a no brainer.

Children of God condemned to hell. So tell me, what is God's purpose for the rebirth?

 

[Zenas]

Children of God condemned to hell. So tell me, what is God's purpose for the rebirth?

To save them of course. But just because you are saved doesn't mean you can't become lost again. This happens in the lives of countless millions of people. And by the way, you must be born again to be saved, but you can be born again and also lost.

 

[The Biblicist]

To save them of course. But just because you are saved doesn't mean you can't become lost again. This happens in the lives of countless millions of people. And by the way, you must be born again to be saved, but you can be born again and also lost.

Jesus flatly contradicts your conclusion. He denies that "OF ALL" which the Father gives to him that even one "OF ALL" will be lost - Jn. 6:39. Hence, not one person given to the Son by the Father will be lost.

Furthermore, Jesus flatly denies that even one person given to him by the Father will fail to come to him in faith - Jn. 6:37. So ALL that are given do come and all who come none are lost. There is no room in this equation for your conclusion.

100% given are 100% that come and 100% that come 100% are not lost.

 

[jaigner]

I prefer my salvation tighter instead of "loose."

 

[Yeshua1]

For those of you who believe you can loose your salvation: after you have "lost your salvation"
1) do you need to be re-baptized
2) do you need to be voted into church membership again
3) does a pastor/deacon/elder need to be ordained again?

And no - this is not a facetious question.

IF one holds to the fact of a real christian commiting Apostasy, than that person has "crucified" jesus all over again, and can NEVER be resaved!