• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

No Law- no happiness

Luke2427

Active Member
Scripture says, "Blessed (happy, happy, happy... [Phil Roberson translation]) is the man... whose delight is in the LAW OF THE LORD and in his LAW does he meditate day and night..."

We cried "Foul!" when they rolled the Ten Commandments out of the Court House, but how much more tragic is it that many Christians, like some on BB, are excommunicating them from God's house!

By doing so, we have cursed the lives of many people because we are the only access they have to that which brings order, sanctification and benediction upon a life, a home, a nation.

I pray we will reconsider our dispensationalism and antinomianism before we bring full out divine curse upon this nation of ours.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

RLBosley

Active Member
So we as believers must keep the law to be happy?

And by law you mean the whole Mosaic Law or the Decalogue?
 

Luke2427

Active Member
Are we under the Law or Grace Covenants?

Define "under".

Don't give me the passages. I can quote them from memory.

What I am asking for is YOUR understanding of what "under" in those passages means.

Then I can answer the question and we can discuss it without wasting immense amounts of time talking past each other because we use the exact same terms with very different meanings.
 
Galatinas 3:

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


The Law could never give eternal life. The Law could never bring justification. All the Law did was bring guilt, condemnation, death, etc. Christ nailed these to the Tree in His flesh, and condemned sin in the flesh. We who are saved, keep the moral law through and by Him.
 
Define "under".

Don't give me the passages. I can quote them from memory.

What I am asking for is YOUR understanding of what "under" in those passages means.

Then I can answer the question and we can discuss it without wasting immense amounts of time talking past each other because we use the exact same terms with very different meanings.

Do we live under the Law or Grace Covenant?
 

Luke2427

Active Member
The Law could never give eternal life. The Law could never bring justification. All the Law did was bring guilt, condemnation, death, etc. Christ nailed these to the Tree in His flesh, and condemned sin in the flesh. We who are saved, keep the moral law through and by Him.

Who said, "The law brings justification"?

Why say that here?

Who are you talking to?

The point I made in the OP is that the Bible says that "the law of the Lord" is a premier source of human happiness.

Do you agree or disagree with that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Who said, "The law brings justification"?

Why say that here?

Who are you talking to?

The point I made in the OP is that the Bible says that "the law of the Lord" is a premier source of human happiness.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

What's the opposite of justification?
 
Who said, "The law brings justification"?

Why say that here?

Who are you talking to?

The point I made in the OP is that the Bible says that "the law of the Lord" is a premier source of human happiness.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

The Law was added 430 years later because of transgression, until the seed come that the promise was made to. It was what they had to live under until Grace(Christ) came.....MORE later...
 

Luke2427

Active Member
The Law was added 430 years later because of transgression, until the seed come that the promise was made to. It was what they had to live under until Grace(Christ) came.....MORE later...

Yes. I know that the Law came 430 years after Abraham.

So in what way did "they" live OUTSIDE of grace as opposed to how we live "under grace."

These are just words until you define them as you understand them.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Willis,


When men were under what you call the law covenant....was there grace? or only law?

When men lived before the mosaic law was given....did they have any law? did they have any grace?

Do christians have any law?

what law is in the christians heart?
 

preacher4truth

Active Member
Grace has always been the means of salvation. It has never been via Law. This is one reason Jesus rebuked Nicodemus -- a teacher of Israel who did not know (as he should have) that we must be born from above.

Abraham is also another example of salvation by grace.

- Blessings
 
Grace has always been the means of salvation. It has never been via Law. This is one reason Jesus rebuked Nicodemus -- a teacher of Israel who did not know (as he should have) that we must be born from above.

Abraham is also another example of salvation by grace.

- Blessings

:applause::thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:
 
Willis,


When men were under what you call the law covenant....was there grace? or only law?

Grace is, and always has been Jesus Christ. Jesus was/is the embodiment of the Law. But remember, under the Law, they had to keep it. They were required to keep it or suffer the consequences. Under the Grace Covenant, we're kept by the power of God.

When men lived before the mosaic law was given....did they have any law? did they have any grace?


Adam, Noah, Abraham, et al, all had a convenant with God. Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD(Gen. 6:8). Grace has everly been, even since before God formed this earth and hung it upon nothing.

Do christians have any law?

what law is in the christians heart?


Here you go:

Mark 12:28-31

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


Matthew 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.



The two laws that Christ was talking about were the Laws of love. The one who is born of God is born of love because He is love. We keep the moral law, not by ourselves, but rather, because the Law Keeper(Jesus Christ) is within us. We are dead, and our lives are hid with Christ in God. We, as sinners, could not keep the Law, the ceremonial or moral Law. As sinners, we weren't moral whatsoever. Sure, as sinners, we may have be anti-gay marriage, anti-shacking up before marriage, always being honest with our fellow man, etc., but we were amoral in God's eyes because Christ's blood wasn't shed upon our souls.

The only reason why we can keep the moral law is because of Jesus Christ being the Captain of our ship.
 
Adam's Clarke's commentary on Hebrews 8:


Verse 7

If that first had been faultless - This is nearly the same argument with that in Hebrews 7:11. The simple meaning is: If the first covenant had made a provision for and actually conferred pardon and purity, and given a title to eternal life, then there could have been no need for a second; but the first covenant did not give these things, therefore a second was necessary; and the covenant that gives these things is the Christian covenant.


Verse 8

For finding fault with them
- The meaning is evidently this: God, in order to show that the first covenant was inefficient, saith to them, the Israelites, Behold, the days come when I will make a new covenant, etc. He found fault with the covenant, and addressed the people concerning his purpose of giving another covenant, that should be such as the necessities of mankind required. As this place refers to Jeremiah 31:31-34, the words finding fault with them may refer to the Jewish people, of whom the Lord complains that they had broken his covenant though he was a husband to them. See below.

With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - That is, with all the descendants of the twelve sons of Jacob. This is thought to be a promise of the conversion of all the Jews to Christianity; both of the lost tribes, and of those who are known to exist in Asiatic and European countries.


Verse 9

Not according to the covenant
- The new covenant is of a widely different nature to that of the old; it was only temporal and earthly in itself, though it pointed out spiritual and eternal things. The new covenant is totally different from this, as we have already seen; and such a covenant, or system of religion, the Jews should have been prepared to expect, as the Prophet Jeremiah had, in the above place, so clearly foretold it.

They continued not in my covenant - It should be observed that the word διαθηκη , which we translate covenant, often means religion itself; and its various precepts. The old covenant in general stated, on God‘s side, I will be your God; on the Israelites‘ side, We will be thy people. This covenant they brake; they served other gods, and neglected the precepts of that holy religion which God had delivered to them.

And I regarded them not - Καγω ημελησα αυτων· And I neglected them or despised them; but the words in the Hebrew text of the prophet are ואנכי בעלתי בם (veanochi baalti bam), which we translate, although I was a husband to them. If our translation be correct, is it possible to account for this most strange difference between the apostle and the prophet? Could the Spirit of God be the author of such a strange, not to say contradictory, translation of the same words? Let it be observed:

1.That the apostle quotes from the Septuagint; and in quoting a version accredited by and commonly used among the Jews, he ought to give the text as he found it, unless the Spirit of God dictated an extension of meaning, as is sometimes the case; but in the present case there seems to be no necessity to alter the meaning.

2.The Hebrew words will bear a translation much nearer to the Septuagint and the apostle than our translation intimates. The words might be literally rendered, And I was Lord over them, or I lorded or ruled over them; i.e., I chastised them for their transgressions, and punished them for their iniquities; ημελησα , I took no farther care of them, and gave them up into the hands of their enemies, and so they were carried away into captivity. This pretty nearly reconciles the Hebrew and the Greek, as it shows the act of God in reference to them is nearly the same when the proper meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words is considered.


Verse 10

This is the covenant
- This is the nature of that glorious system of religion which I shall publish among them after those days, i.e., in the times of the Gospel.

I will put my laws into their mind - I will influence them with the principles of law, truth, holiness, etc.; and their understandings shall he fully enlightened to comprehend them.

And write them in their hearts - All their affections, passions, and appetites, shall be purified and filled with holiness and love to God and man; so that they shall willingly obey, and feel that love is the fulfilling of the law: instead of being written on tables of stone, they shall be written on the fleshly tables of their hearts.

I will be to them a God - These are the two grand conditions by which the parties in this covenant or agreement are bound:

1.I will be your God.

2.Ye shall be my people.

As the object of religious adoration to any man is that Being from whom he expects light, direction, defense, support, and happiness: so God, promising to be their God, promises in effect to give them all these great and good things. To be God‘s people implies that they should give God their whole hearts, serve him with all their light and strength, and have no other object of worship or dependence but himself. Any of these conditions broken, the covenant is rendered null and void, and the other party absolved from his engagement.


Verse 11

They shall not teach every man his neighbor
- Under the old covenant, properly speaking, there was no public instruction; before the erection of synagogues all worship was confined at first to the tabernacle, afterwards to the temple. When synagogues were established they were used principally for the bare reading of the law and the prophets; and scarcely any such thing as a public ministry for the continual instruction of the common people was found in the land till the time of John the Baptist, our Lord, and his apostles. It is true there were prophets who were a sort of general teachers, but neither was their ministry extended through all the people; and there were schools of the prophets and schools of the rabbins, but these were for the instruction of select persons. Hence it was necessary that every man should do what he could, under that dispensation, to instruct his neighbor and brother. But the prophecy here indicates that there should be, under the Gospel dispensation, a profusion of Divine light; and this we find to be the case by the plentiful diffusion of the sacred writings, and by an abundant Gospel ministry: and these blessings are not confined to temples or palaces, but are found in every corner of the land; so that, literally, all the people, from the least to the greatest, know and acknowledge the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Almost every man, at least in this land, has a Bible, and can read it; and there is not a family that has not the opportunity of hearing the Gospel preached, explained, and enforced.
Some have thought that from the least to the greatest is intended to signify the order in which God proceeds with a work of grace; he generally begins with the poor, and through these the great and the high often hear the Gospel of Christ.




Verse 12

I will be merciful to their unrighteousness
- In order to be their God, as mentioned under the preceding verse, it is requisite that their iniquity should be pardoned; this is provided for by the immolation of Jesus Christ as the covenant sacrifice. By his blood, redemption has been purchased, and all who with penitent hearts believe on the Lord Jesus receive remission of sins, and God remembers their iniquities no more against them so as to punish them on that account. All spiritual evil against the nature and law of God is represented here under the following terms: -

1.Unrighteousness, αδικια , injustice or wrong. This is against God, his neighbor, and himself.

2.Sin, ἁμαρτια , deviation from the Divine law; Missing the Mark; aiming at happiness but never attaining it, because sought out of God, and in the breach of his laws.

3.Iniquity, ανομια , lawlessness, not having, knowing, or acknowledging, a law; having no law written in their hearts, and restrained by none in the conduct of their lives. All these are to be removed by God‘s mercy; and this is to be understood of his mercy in Christ Jesus.



Verse 13

He hath made the first old
- That is: He has considered it as antiquated, and as being no longer of any force.

That which decayeth and waxeth old
- Here is an allusion to the ancient laws, which either had perished from the tables on which they were written through old age, or were fallen into disuse, or were abrogated.

Is ready to vanish away - Εγγυς αφανισμου· Is about to be abolished. Dionysius of Halicarnassus, speaking of the laws of Numa, which had been written on oak boards, says: Ἁς αφανισθηναι συνεβη τῳ χρονῳ· “which had perished through old age.” And the word αφανιζειν is used to express the abolition of the law. The apostle, therefore, intimates that the old covenant was just about to be abolished; but he expresses himself cautiously and tenderly, that he might not give unnecessary offense.

Under the Law, there was a rememberance of sin. Under Grace, our sins our blotted out. Under the Law, they had to keep it. Under Grace, we are kept by the power of God. Under the Law, when they broke the Law, they were put to death. Under Grace, we have mercy if/when we sin. The Law was a covenant that was wek in that it pertained to the flesh. The Grace Covenant is betwixt God and our souls.

I had to shorten verse 13 due to the length.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=heb&chapter=8&verse=10
 
Top