Evolutionism poor religion and junk science

[BobRyan]

Many people may well have found that evolutionism is an example of blind faith religion and junk science.

But I have a question for the group - is there any chance that your understanding of the vacuous nature of evolutionism as a religion might be diminished by the fact that so many new solar systems and planets are being found these days?

The Vatican has come up with a sort of "brother alien" line of thinking in some sort of effort to embrace both evolutionism and the existence of other solar systems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/world/europe/14iht-vat.4.12885393.html?_r=0

What say you?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

I am wondering how you are going to try to spin this to bash Catholics while your cult believes the same thing. :laugh:

By the way, your article merely says that a single "astronomer" speculates on this - not "the Vatican".

 

[Revmitchell]

To the op talk about weak arguments. The size of the universe is not a convincing argument that there "might" be others.

 

[BobRyan]

I am wondering how you are going to try to spin this to bash Catholics while your cult believes the same thing. :laugh:

By the way, your article merely says that a single "astronomer" speculates on this - not "the Vatican".

Your lack of attention to detail - is nothing short of amazing (as usual). Perhaps your methods are too close to that of the promoters of evolutionism and this is causing you some discomfort on this thread.

The "missionary to the aliens" doctrine of the Vatican is not at all what we find in the Bible in Hebrews 1 as you seem to imagine it. (Or perhaps your lack of attention to "detail" did not allow you to read that part of the Bible regarding the subject you mention.)

And the Vatican has been promoting the "Brother Alien" idea (primarily via the Jesuits running their astronomy program") for decades. You focus on them is indeed helpful.

Fortunately for them - they now have a Jesuit in their oval office.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Evolutionism vs Science

When contrasting evolutionism to science we find that a huge gap where evolutionism is primarily "story-based" and science is "fact based".

The facts of science involved in the study of (Math or physics or Chemistry for example) are observable, repeatable, falsifiable and apparent to those who are not married to a religion of atheism. By contrast even atheist evolutionist scientists like Collin Patterson of the British Museum of Natural history are on record "lamenting" the many storied wax-nose nature of evolutionism. Patterson states that the stories of "how one thing came from another are stories easy enough to make up - but they are not science".

An example of such "story telling" can be found at the Smithsonian in the case of the fictitious "horse series" found to be fraudulent in the 1950's and yet retained on display and in science text books for decades due to its powerful storytelling effect.

Another such example is Osborn's "Nebraska Man" story held forth in a public debate (of sorts) published abroad in news papers around the time of the Scopes "monkey" trial. There the tooth of a Peccary was used as a stand in for all of "Nebraska man" - being all the "substance" that the story needed to be promoted as if undeniable indisputable "fact".

Another example of a truly fraudulent "story" held forth for decades "as facts" is the "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" story telling of Ernst Haeckel. Here it was claimed that humans go through stages during gestation that retells the story of various species as they evolved up their way to human. Turned out to be a story based on nothing more than creative wood carvings edited to make the story appear to be plausible.

When put on trial for his fraud - decades later - Haeckel admitted that he should feel just awful about the whole story telling bit - except that "everyone is doing it" to support evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

This is beyond the pale.

BobRyan belongs to a cult whose "prophetess" had "visions" of alien beings on other planets.

Where is the verifiable and repeatable science behind that?

First he had the gall to complain about abortion - while his church(?) runs hospitals that perform abortion on demand...

And now THIS!!! :laugh:

 

[targus]

Your lack of attention to detail - is nothing short of amazing (as usual). Perhaps your methods are too close to that of the promoters of evolutionism and this is causing you some discomfort on this thread.

My only discomfort is having to read the trash that you spew here.

The "missionary to the aliens" doctrine of the Vatican...

And the Vatican has been promoting the "Brother Alien" idea (primarily via the Jesuits running their astronomy program") for decades.

Source please?

But not holding my breath.

 

[BobRyan]

So then you did not read the link? really?

There is no contradiction between faith in God and believing that aliens may live somewhere in the universe, according to the Vatican’s chief astronomer, the Associated Press reports.


In the interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, the Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes is quoted as saying he doesn’t rule out the possibility that life could have developed on other planets.

“Just as we consider earthly creatures as 'a brother,' and 'sister,' why should we not talk about an 'extra-terrestrial brother'? It would still be part of creation,” said Funes. “Thinking otherwise would be like ‘putting limits’ on God’s omnipotence.”

and then there is

Pope Benedict XVI's astronomer: the Catholic Church welcomes aliens

Highly evolved extra terrestrial lifeforms may be living in space and would be welcomed into the church - "no matter how many tentacles", one of the Pope's astronomers has said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...omer-the-Catholic-Church-welcomes-aliens.html

The senior Vatican scientist, Brother Guy Consolmagno, said that he would be delighted if we encountered intelligent aliens and would be happy to baptise them.

Speaking on the eve of addressing the British Science Festival, Dr Consolmangno said he had no problem with science and religion co-existing together.



But he dismissed Creationism and claimed that the revival of “intelligent design" – the controversial theory that only God can explain gaps in the theory of evolution – was “bad theology".


Dr Consolmango is one of a team of 12 astronomers working for the Vatican

Don't miss that last point - not only is this "we welcome the alien" and we seek to 'baptize them" idea an appeal to evolutionism-all-day-long, but as the Jesuit astronomer above notes - to accept either intelligent design or the Bible stand on creation instead of aliens-and-evolution would be "bad theology".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who watched the 2013 disclosure project at the National Press Club in Washington D.C.

http://press.org/events/citizen-hearing-disclosure-chd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZs9B5h2n5E

Here you may note the connection that is made between this subject and tossing Christianity out the window as little more than dark ages superstition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAtGG1Ekkf0

In any case regardless of the game they play - has anyone else noticed that the same RCC connection between evolutionism and aliens or at least planets in other solar systems is a common connection and theme?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

I cannot believe that BobRyan wants to go down this road. :laugh:

Here is what one SDA member has to say about it...

"For Adventists, the existence of intelligent alien life is a deeply held belief founded in great controversy theology and the writings of Ellen White. The great controversy theme (GCT) is a central doctrine of the Adventist church that touches all of its theology as an "organizing principle" and is "Ellen White's distinctive theological contribution." 2 The theme involves a cosmic conflict "between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe…Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated." 3 Ellen White made it clear that the controversy is about God's reputation.

But the plan of redemption had a yet broader and deeper purpose than the salvation of man. It was not for this alone that Christ came to the earth; it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might regard the Law of God as it should be regarded; but it was to vindicate the character of God before the universe.4

An essential feature of the GCT is its cosmic scope, involving a vast number of intelligent, unfallen, alien beings observing this controversy. God's character is on trial before all the populated planets, and their inhabitants are the jury. From the beginning of the controversy, these beings have been watching the trial with intense interest. Their involvement elevates the controversy to "great," for without their existence, the boundless cosmic audience for God's character demonstration is removed. Satan's power and importance are reduced if his influence is limited to our "little world."

http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2008/1/martincarey.html

Alien life on other planets is part and parcel - a cornerstone - of SDA theology.

Let the spin begin. :laugh:

 

[targus]

Here are some funny quotes from an SDA discussion titled "Does the SDA Church have a position on Aliens from other planets?"

Seriously - SDA's actually believe in unfallen perfect beings living on other planets. They actually talk about this stuff with a straight face. :laugh:

An actual SDA quote - "My understanding is that of all the planets that are inhabited by intelligent beings, we are the only planet that fell into sin as a result of the disobedience of Adam & Eve when they ate from the tree that God told them not to eat from.

All the other inhabited worlds remained obedient to the will of God and thus remained in a sinless state, unlike the sinful state of planet Earth.

As a result of our sinful planet, God placed this world in quarantine from the rest of God's inhabited worlds. The only created beings that are allowed to come here are His angels, who are here to minister to us and to protect us from the devil and the other fallen angels."

And another - "Based on these scriptures the SDA poineers had concluded that at these heavenly meetings noted in Chapter 1 and 2 of the book ofJob, Satan was the only representative from the earth. The words "sons of God" was then taken to mean representative from other planets where Satan did not rule. This also implied that these creatures were perfect and without sin."

And another - "I will limit my response by saying that intelligent beings from other words are like us with the freedom of choice, except they never disobeyed God's will, just as 2/3 of the angels are intelligent beings who never disobeyed God's will, unlike the other 1/3 of the angels who, as intelligent beings, chose to go the way of the devil and disobeyed God's will.

I don't believe they crawl around, but walk around as we do, and maybe even are capable of doing more than what we can do in the sense of moving from point A to point B. We know that God's angels can travel from heaven to earth at speeds much greater than the speed of light, perhaps even at the speed of thought."

http://www.christianforums.com/t7565524/

 

[BobRyan]

I think we are supposed to be destracted by Targus' rant - but I prefer to stick with the topic at hand.

Anyone who watched the 2013 disclosure project at the National Press Club in Washington D.C.

http://press.org/events/citizen-hearing-disclosure-chd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZs9B5h2n5E

Here you may note the connection that is made between this subject and tossing Christianity out the window as little more than dark ages superstition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAtGG1Ekkf0

In any case regardless of the game they play - has anyone else noticed that the same RCC connection between evolutionism and aliens or at least planets in other solar systems is a common connection and theme?

A statement was made that in 2000 around 30% of Americans thought there might be something to the evolutionists-alien stories.

By 2009 that number went to 80%.

More surprisingly, the new NatGeo survey found that a whopping 79 percent of people think the government has kept information about UFOs a secret

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012...ns-believe-in-ufos-survey-says/#ixzz2W695TMWh
​

The question that perhaps some (like Targus) try to ignore is what this pop-culture-idea of little green men in space ships does to the evolutionism vs creation debate.

(Note: I am not trying to equate this with Hebrews 1 or Job 1 the way that some (like perhaps Targus) might do in his efforts to ignore the details.)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

Who exactly is bringing up "little green men" when talking about evolutionism?

This is just another of your strawman arguments.

As far as I know your cult is the only one that actually believes in "little green men" from space.

BTW - you should know better than to say "little green men" in as much as your revered prophetess EGW said that they were "tall and white". :laugh:

And isn't this typical - the SDA doesn't want to talk about their beliefs. Oh my - what a surprise! :laugh:

Why are you so ashamed of your beliefs, BobRyan?

Although I would be too if I were a part of the SDA. :laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

Who exactly is bringing up "little green men" when talking about evolutionism?

You need to quote someone other than you.

Click on the links I posted.

Or look what National Geographic published on this subject.

Or listen to what the Vatican's own astronomers are saying - when I quote them for you.

Let actual "information" become part of your POV.

Less vacuous name-calling and more facts please.

Contribute to the topic with actual facts that apply to the OP.

Click a link and read.

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/solar-system/life-beyond-earth/

Yet another link where the Vatican links evolutionism to life on other planets
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-566580/Heavens-God-created-life-planets-says-Vatican.html

But of course - Targus cliams that only BobRyan would possibly know that. How odd.



in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

or

you can just have me post the link

http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/vatican-considers-life-on-other-planets

then read it for you

The conclusions of the five-day work-study were presented today by a Jesuit priest and leading professors from Italy, France and the United States.

"Astrobiology is the study of life's relationship to the rest of the cosmos," one of the professors explained. "Its major themes include the origin of life and its precursor materials, the evolution of life on earth, and its future prospects on and off the earth."

The Pontifical Academy of Sciences and the Vatican Observatory hosted the study days. Presenting the conclusions today were Jesuit Father José Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory; Jonathan Lunine, professor at the department of physics in Rome's Tor Vergata University; Chris Impey, professor at the department of astronomy in the University of Arizona and the Steward Observatory, Tucson; and Athena Coustenis, professor at the "Observatoire de Paris-Meudon," in France.

...
"In the past 15 years, technological breakthroughs have led to the discovery of over 400 planets beyond the solar system," he explained, noting that the smallest of these is "not much more massive than the Earth."

"Meanwhile," the Arizona-based professor continued, "lab experiments have made progress in tracing the processes by which simple chemical ingredients might have evolved into cells about four billion years ago, and scientists have discovered life in surprisingly diverse, inhospitable environments on the Earth. It is plausibly estimated that there are hundreds of millions of habitable locations in the Milky Way, which is just one of billions of galaxies in the universe."

The director of the Vatican observatory said it’s possible that intelligent life exists on other planets. And since aliens would be part of God’s creation, their existence would not contradict the Catholic faith. In an interview with the Vatican newspaper Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes discussed the Big Bang theory, as well as creation and evolution.
...

Question: Do you refer also to beings similar to us, or even more evolved?
Funes: It’s possible. However, so far we haven’t got any proof. But in such a big universe, this hypothesis can’t be excluded.
Question: And that wouldn’t be a problem for our faith?


http://www.universetoday.com/14262/vatican-astronomer-says-its-ok-to-believe-in-et/

opportunity to get graduate degree from Penn State in astrobiology
http://php.scripts.psu.edu/dept/psarc/index.php?page=graduate-degree

 

[targus]

SDA's believe in intelligent life on other planets as a matter of doctrine.

I guess that puts you in the very camp that you are degrading.

Why do you hide your SDA beliefs?

 

[BobRyan]

SDA's believe in intelligent life on other planets as a matter of doctrine.

I guess that puts you in the very camp that you are degrading.

Why do you hide your SDA beliefs?

The Bible says that other worlds exist -

Heb 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


And Job 1 states that other beings - other than humans "exist".

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

your wild claim above is that the Bible fact that these other worlds exist, and that these other beings exist is the SAME claim in support of blind faith evolutionism - as we actually SAW in the links from the Vatican sources and from other sources claiming that the popular - ufo-fiction is a claim for evolutionism.

Your smear of the Bible in that regard is questionable at best - and I think that would be held as obvious by baptist standards as well.

You cannot equate the two.

in Christ,

Bob