The husband is the head of the wife

[Robert Snow]

Okay so I don't have a "head", being a widow and all. So should I be looking for another or remain single as Paul says is best?

And if we singles and widows can live without a head to turn (cause everyone know that if the man is the head, the woman is the neck which causes the head to turn in the right direction), then why should we bother to marry at all? Paul says marriage causes all sorts of grief. (1 Corinthians 7, if you don't believe me) And if we aren't marrying where does this leave your "headship" doctrine.

Without a husband, Christ would be your head. Submit to His and to the Church in that order.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Actually, what the scriptures actually advocate is is mutual submission, from both partners..

It is gods "better idea"

 

[Dennis324]

Ephesians 5:23 tells us: For the husband is the head of the wife.

Do we see the church following this direction of Paul?

Has womens lib overtaken Scripture. In our society, there are many single mothers who have taught their daughters not to depend on a man, thus marriage may often be more of an economic partnership?

Does a man give into his wife, especially in spiritual affairs - for example in membership of a church. He might say, "but my wife has attended there since a child". How about a wife does not want to attend Sunday School, (only worship) does the husband forsake SS, ? Suppose a man wants to embark on a ministry - but his wife doesn't?
Do we see situations like this in our church? If so, what action should be taken? How involved should the Pastor get? How does a husband respond?

Thoughts?

Ephesians 5:23 tells us the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church... That next bit is important.

Ask yourselves 'does Christ force the Church to do something they may absolutely hate'? I don't think he does. I think Christ through the Holy Spirit may move the people in such a way to get them to comply. But he's not violent with the Church. He wont get into a long argument I don't think. God has given us free will and we have a choice. And if we choose not to do (whatever), I don't think he abandons us. We may lose our joy in Salvation, but not our salvation.

Likewise, should we divorce our wife If she doesn't want to go to Sunday School? Or get into a shouting match?

Jesus is loving and gentle. Should husbands not be the same?

And a wise pastor will leave well enough alone unless invited to counsel them.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Actually, what the scriptures actually advocate is is mutual submission, from both partners..

What verse? Where in the Bible do we see Jesus submitting to the Church?

 

[Dennis324]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Actually, she's the perfect wife for me. I get ideas and tend to run with them. She keeps me in check. More often than not, when I don't listen to her, I get myself into trouble. One of the wisest women I know.

She's looking at what you type...right? :laugh: (JK)

 

[Alive in Christ]

What verse? Where in the Bible do we see Jesus submitting to the Church?

Hopefully this will help your understanding. (many scriptures)


/"]http://http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/11/mystery-a-defense-of-mutual-submission-within-marriage/[/URL]

Well, as is normal, the link doest work so, it will have be fixed it somehow.,

Sorry

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Hopefully this will help your understanding.

My understanding is just fine, thank you.

Please note that I didn't ask you to explain the concept to me, but to back up your claims.

What I asked you is what verses you believe back up your claim that the husband is to submit to the wife in the context of the marriage relationship and where in scripture we see Christ submitting to the Church.

Well, as is normal, the link doest work so, you itwill have be fixed it somwhow.

Don't care. I wouldn't read it anyway. The blog author did not make the claim. You did.

 

[Alive in Christ]

My understanding is just fine, thank you.

Please note that I didn't ask you to explain the concept to me, but to back up your claims.

What I asked you is what verses you believe back up your claim that the husband is to submit to the wife in the context of the marriage relationship and where in scripture we see Christ submitting to the Church.



Don't care. I wouldn't read it anyway. The blog author did not make the claim. You did.

........Thats correct. However, you sound like you will blindly reject any evidence that is given, so I wont wast my time trying to fix the link.

God bless

 

[JohnDeereFan]

........Thats correct. However, you sound like you will blindly reject any evidence that is given, so I wont wast my time trying to fix the link.

God bless

OK. So, in other words, your claim that the Bible supports mutual submission in the marriage relationship is false.

Just for future reference, you really shouldn't say "the Bible says" if you're not able to show that the Bible says. That's misrepresenting the Word of God and is a sin. It also makes you look weasly.

 

[saturneptune]

If husband and wife have mutual respect and love for each other, and their relationship is founded on Jesus Christ and Scripture, this is never a problem. The word submission does not mean tyranny or mistreatment of each other.

 

[Alive in Christ]

John deer fan

You said...

K. So, in other words, your claim that the Bible supports mutual submission in the marriage relationship is false.

Thats what you belive.

I belive that the scriptures support mutual submition.

Just for future reference, you really shouldn't say "the Bible says" if you're not able to show that the Bible says. That's misrepresenting the Word of God and is a sin. It also makes you look weasly.

Do you have comprehension issues?? The scriptural evidence was is the link.

The one that didnt work

There was a thread on here recently about some people (not me) posting material with out a link

I am NOT going post my material without a link.




__________________

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I belive that the scriptures support mutual submition.

And yet, when asked what verses support mutual submission, you couldn't think of any.

Do you have comprehension issues?

No, I just have a no time for internet trolls issues.

The scriptural evidence was is the link.

But the link didn't make the claim. You did. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this is a discussion board, not a make stupid claims and then let somebody else do the work of backing them up for you board.

I feel I gave you a fair chance to defend your claims and you just wanted to play childish games, instead. So, in accordance with Pr 26:4. (see how easy it is to show a Bible verse?), I'm going to go ahead and put you on my ignore list where you belong.

 

[Alive in Christ]

John Deer fan...

You posted...

I feel I gave you a fair chance to defend your claims and you just wanted to play childish games, instead. So, in accordance with Pr 26:4. (see how easy it is to show a Bible verse?), I'm going to go ahead and put you on my ignore list where you belong.

That will be be pefectly fine with me.


You have a good evening, and God bless you

 

[go2church]

Uh, not to interrupt the ignoring and such going on, but did either of you guys see Ephesians 5:21?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Uh, not to interrupt the ignoring and such going on, but did either of you guys see Ephesians 5:21?

Yes. I saw it and addressed it earlier in the thread. vv 1-21 refers to brothers and sisters in Christ submitting to one another in the context of the church, not husbands and wives submitting to one another in the context of the marriage. As I pointed out in my previous post, the passage concerning the relationship between husbands and wives does not begin until the next verse, v 22.

As I asked in my previous post, if marriage is an illustration of Christ's relationship with the Church, with the husband representing Christ and the wife representing the Church, where in scripture do you ever see Christ submit to the Church?

 

[annsni]

If Ephesians 5:21 was for all relationships (which we know it is not - when does a boss need to submit to his employee?), then why would Paul then go on to just tell wives to submit to their husbands and not for the husbands to submit to their wives? Because that was a general principle for all general relationships in the church - but then there are greater "submission" roles in there as well.

 

[go2church]

The paragraph (Greek text) starts with verse 21. That means it applies to the later verses not the former and specifically to the husband, wife relationship, extending to the end of the chapter. Now you may want a complementation interpretation, which is fine, but you can't do it based on verse 21 being in the former paragraph because it's not.

Not sure about bosses comment, but the context is believer to believer submission, then husband and wife, not sure where bosses came into the picture. Paul did say that slaves should submit to their masters (6:5), is that what you're referencing? If so that comes much later in the text, and it would seem that Paul expected submission there as well.

In a broader sense, Jesus submitted to the world by being crucified for sins he did not commit. But I don't think that is what you mean. So I ask, do you view view submission as authority? I don't see that at all in the word submission. Paul could have used the word for authority here, but didn't. Submission is the voluntary, self-limiting, giving of self to another which describes Jesus wonderfully.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The paragraph (Greek text) starts with verse 21. That means it applies to the later verses not the former and specifically to the husband, wife relationship, extending to the end of the chapter. Now you may want a complementation interpretation, which is fine, but you can't do it based on verse 21 being in the former paragraph because it's not.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Submission is the voluntary, self-limiting, giving of self to another which describes Jesus wonderfully.

OK. Show the verse where we see Jesus submitting to the authority of the Church.

 

[go2church]

How did you come to this conclusion?



OK. Show the verse where we see Jesus submitting to the authority of the Church.

Paragraph divisions from the United Bible Society 4th edition

Uh, Ephesians 5:21. Jesus died for the church, which is the ultimate example of submission

From your answer and use of the word authority, is it safe to say you see submission as authority?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Uh, Ephesians 5:21. Jesus died for the church, which is the ultimate example of submission

That's not an example of submission.

From your answer and use of the word authority, is it safe to say you see submission as authority?

No, but it is safe to say that you don't know what submission means. Submission means to defer to someone else's authority.

Jesus never submits to the Church's authority. To the contrary, it is always the Church that submits to Jesus' authority.

If you don't even know what submission is, then you have no credibility.