God calls you to be an overcomer by living a holy life!

[BobRyan]

My view was made clear from the start -

you said --

Originally Posted by steaver

In short...

1) one is justified by grace through faith apart from any works of the law.

2) After one is justified by grace through faith (saved), by virtue of the believer's new God given heart (born-again), one's faith produces obedience and good works, which obedience and works are defined by James to be a justification of the true believer's said confession.

And then I said -

Now there - see?

You did it again.

That was not so hard.

And Romans 2 is in perfect agreement with James 2 and also your statement on justification in James 2.

Rom 2
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Now the objective unbiased reader is going to assume that

1. you know exactly what you mean when you say "one's faith produces obedience and good works, which obedience and works are defined by James to be a justification of the true believer's said confession."

2. And they know what "perfect agreement" means.

3. And they will find it in my statement "And Romans 2 is in perfect agreement with James 2 and also your statement on justification in James 2."

So if you are sure you are not confused about your own view of James - 2 then you cannot fail to be clear about my view of Romans 2 - since I keep saying it is the same thing you are claiming for James 2.

It is not a case of future salvation or that in the future we will acquire some saving faith or saving justification -- we must already be saved by the time our name comes up in that future Romans 2 judgment or we will be declared lost.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[evangelist-7]

One person wrote …
All who have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved and to receive the forgiveness of sins are
given the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life.
After being born again we no longer need to be commanded to love one another or to love the Lord.
The Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer will bring about repentance and the desire to please God.

And I answered ...

Yes, this most certainly is the last portion, i.e. the end game, of GOD's PLAN OF SALVATION.

However, BAC Jerry continues to have free will, and it is up to Jerry to choose
how much he will co-operate with the Holy Spirit in His efforts to sanctify him.

Jerry can even choose to walk, or run even, from the faith ... and end up rejecting salvation.
Just maybe, Jerry really misses his old-man lifestyle of sin, and chooses to return to it.
And truly, there is a multitude of reasons why Jerry could turn his back on God.

And God will do everything in His power to bring Jerry back,
but He will not force him to return, i.e. He will not violate Jerry's free will.

Paul was writing to the BACs in Rome …
Romans 6:16
… to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
WHETHER (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness

Again, as always … so much for OSAS!
.

 

[Yeshua1]

One person wrote …
All who have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved and to receive the forgiveness of sins are
given the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life.
After being born again we no longer need to be commanded to love one another or to love the Lord.
The Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer will bring about repentance and the desire to please God.

And I answered ...

Yes, this most certainly is the last portion, i.e. the end game, of GOD's PLAN OF SALVATION.

However, BAC Jerry continues to have free will, and it is up to Jerry to choose
how much he will co-operate with the Holy Spirit in His efforts to sanctify him.

Jerry can even choose to walk, or run even, from the faith ... and end up rejecting salvation.
Just maybe, Jerry really misses his old-man lifestyle of sin, and chooses to return to it.
And truly, there is a multitude of reasons why Jerry could turn his back on God.

And God will do everything in His power to bring Jerry back,
but He will not force him to return, i.e. He will not violate Jerry's free will.

Paul was writing to the BACs in Rome …
Romans 6:16
… to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
WHETHER (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness

Again, as always … so much for OSAS!
.

What sin causes one to forfeit eternal life? what sin can overcome the power in the blood of jesus that atones IN FULL for all my sins?

did God accept the payment of jesus for me as payment IN FULL, or just as a pledge towards me living better from now on?

 

[steaver]

One person wrote …
All who have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved and to receive the forgiveness of sins are
given the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life.
After being born again we no longer need to be commanded to love one another or to love the Lord.
The Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer will bring about repentance and the desire to please God.

And I answered ...

Yes, this most certainly is the last portion, i.e. the end game, of GOD's PLAN OF SALVATION.

However, BAC Jerry continues to have free will, and it is up to Jerry to choose
how much he will co-operate with the Holy Spirit in His efforts to sanctify him.

Jerry can even choose to walk, or run even, from the faith ... and end up rejecting salvation.
Just maybe, Jerry really misses his old-man lifestyle of sin, and chooses to return to it.
And truly, there is a multitude of reasons why Jerry could turn his back on God.

And God will do everything in His power to bring Jerry back,
but He will not force him to return, i.e. He will not violate Jerry's free will.

Paul was writing to the BACs in Rome …
Romans 6:16
… to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
WHETHER (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness

Again, as always … so much for OSAS!
.

Well, we understand that we are sinners. I asked you a few times if you would estimate how often you sin, once a year maybe, twice a year, once a week, once a day? But you never answer, why is that? If you are going to preach to us that a BAC must not sin or be damned to hell then you really need to tell us what a sinless BAC looks like. Otherwise, your "opinion" carries no weight.

 

[evangelist-7]

I am responding for others who might come along and be deceived by the antichrist spirits here.
Make no mistake, brethren, there ARE tares amongst the wheat.

This is maybe the 10th time I have presented this here, but it is rejected by the unbelievers ...

Sin, for the Christian, is taken care of in this way:

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Either that, or the word of God is a liar.
.

 

[steaver]

I am responding for others who might come along and be deceived by the antichrist spirits here.
Make no mistake, brethren, there ARE tares amongst the wheat.

This is maybe the 10th time I have presented this here, but it is rejected by the unbelievers ...

Sin, for the Christian, is taken care of in this way:

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Either that, or the word of God is a liar.
.

It seems you are promoting "easy believism" here. Go ahead and sin, just make sure you confess it.

 

[BobRyan]

Well, we understand that we are sinners. I asked you a few times if you would estimate how often you sin, once a year maybe, twice a year, once a week, once a day? But you never answer, why is that? If you are going to preach to us that a BAC must not sin or be damned to hell then you really need to tell us what a sinless BAC looks like. Otherwise, your "opinion" carries no weight.

You are responding as if E-7 is the author of Romans 6 and 1John 2:1 and 1John 2:3-6 and 1John 3:4-11

Is that how you deal with those texts? Really? By asking E-7 how "often he sins???

I have never heard of that as a form of exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

You are responding as if E-7 is the author of Romans 6 and 1John 2:1 and 1John 2:3-6 and 1John 3:4-11

Is that how you deal with those texts? Really? By asking E-7 how "often he sins???

I have never heard of that as a form of exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

You never heard of it because it is not exegesis. If one is going to preach a BAC sins will condemn that BAC to hell, they surely ought to be able to explain how this doctrine is manifested in the BAC's life and the best way to explain this is to give your own life as an example of how this is done.

Maybe you would care to answer my question if you so agree with E-7's point of view on BACs going to hell for sins?

 

[BobRyan]

You never heard of it because it is not exegesis. If one is going to preach a BAC sins will condemn that BAC to hell, they surely ought to be able to explain how this doctrine is manifested

Matt 18 Christ explains it as "Forgiveness revoked".

In Romans 11 we see that those who stand only by their faith should "fear for if He did not spare them NEITHER will he spare you".

In 1Cor 6 "do not be deceived" is the message to the saints - the church at Corinth. And then Paul tells them who it is that does not go to heaven.

James 2 - we are told that we should live as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty.

In 1John 2:3-6 the one who claims to know Christ and DOES NOT keep His Commandments, does not "walk as He walked" - is lying.

What part of this is up to E-7 to explain how often he sins - before we do our own exegesis??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Matt 18 Christ explains it as "Forgiveness revoked".

In Romans 11 we see that those who stand only by their faith should "fear for if He did not spare them NEITHER will he spare you".

In 1Cor 6 "do not be deceived" is the message to the saints - the church at Corinth. And then Paul tells them who it is that does not go to heaven.

James 2 - we are told that we should live as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty.

In 1John 2:3-6 the one who claims to know Christ and DOES NOT keep His Commandments, does not "walk as He walked" - is lying.

What part of this is up to E-7 to explain how often he sins - before we do our own exegesis??

in Christ,

Bob

Exegesis doesn't apply to my question. How often would you say you sin BobRyan? Once a year, twice maybe? Once a month, once a week? Or maybe you don't sin at all? Just trying to see some life application here on your point of view of how BACs sins will send them to hell. What a better place to begin than in the own life of the one's who believe the doctrine?

 

[BobRyan]

Exegesis doesn't apply to my question. How often would you say you sin BobRyan? Once a year, twice maybe? Once a month, once a week?

What difference does it make?

Since you admit that this is a nonsense question that has nothing at all to do with your exegesis of Romans 6 or 1 John 2, or 1John 3... what is the point?

Did you run out of things to post??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[evangelist-7]

It seems you are promoting "easy believism" here.
Go ahead and sin, just make sure you confess it.

Another moronic post ... When will they ever end? ... That's my only qvestion.

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

John is talking about every single BAC (except the One) ... past, present, and future!
.

 

[Yeshua1]

My view was made clear from the start -

you said --



And then I said -




Now the objective unbiased reader is going to assume that

1. you know exactly what you mean when you say "[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]one's faith produces obedience and good works, which obedience and works are defined by James to be a justification of the true believer's said confession."

2. And they know what "perfect agreement" means.

3. And they will find it in my statement "And Romans 2 is in perfect agreement with James 2 and also your statement on justification in James 2."

So if you are sure you are not confused about your own view of James - 2 then you cannot fail to be clear about my view of Romans 2 - since I keep saying it is the same thing you are claiming for James 2.

It is not a case of future salvation or that in the future we will acquire some saving faith or saving justification -- we must already be saved by the time our name comes up in that future Romans 2 judgment or we will be declared lost.

in Christ,

Bob
[/I]

James does NOT refer to justification in same manner of Paul does though, different intent, NOT talking of the justifed state before God, as THAt is solely thru faith in the person and work of Jesus, period!

Paul adresses how to be justified before God in sense of forgiveness of sins, adopted by God, receiving new natures and the HS indwelling us...

James refers to us AFTER that act of god, to how we ought to live, to justify before man proof that we are justified ow before God!

 

[steaver]

What difference does it make?



in Christ,

Bob

If it makes no difference in your mind, then tell us how often you believe you sin, once a year, twice maybe, once a day, twice a day, etc.

Since you admit that this is a nonsense question.....

Not sure where you read that in my post....

Did you run out of things to post??

Not at all. If a preacher cannot make life applications with their doctrinal points of view then I don't see much value in their "opinions". You and E-7 keep preaching Born of God Christians will be cast into hell for sinning. So I am assuming you two feel pretty confident you are not sinning in any way shape or form. I would like to know how you feel you are doing? Are you sinning once in awhile? How often? How often are you personally finding yourself confessing your sins before God so you may remain justified??

This really isn't a difficult question to answer......well, maybe it is for you, I don't know why you don't want to share this, certainly you have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
Exegesis doesn't apply to my question. How often would you say you sin BobRyan? Once a year, twice maybe? Once a month, once a week?

What difference does it make?

Since you admit that this is a nonsense question that has nothing at all to do with your exegesis of Romans 6 or 1 John 2, or 1John 3... what is the point?

Did you run out of things to post??

If it makes no difference in your mind, then tell us how often you believe you sin,

Once you admit that your question is pointless in terms of Bible study - it loses its value altogether.

If you cannot come up with a value for it - then you will have to play that game alone.

I think you already knew that - but it is a fun game to play.

So then ... "back to the Word of God"

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

[/I]








Once you admit that your question is pointless in terms of Bible study - it loses its value altogether.



in Christ,

Bob

Well, there you go again saying I admitted something that I never said, let's try to keep it honest here brother.

If you cannot come up with a value for it - then you will have to play that game alone.

Sorry, but you ignoring the value I presented does not equate to me not coming up with a value for it.

So far, I believe the readers can understand my question to you and E-7 and how it pertains to this debate about Christian's sins. You two running fast a furious away from this questions is speaking volumes to me and I would wager to the readers as well.

 

[BobRyan]

You admit that your little game about how often does E-7 sin has nothing to do with Bible study - with exegesis - with the texts listed and how we interpret them. (And of course - I agree with that part of what you claim)

Once you do that ---

game over.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So far, I believe the readers can understand my question to you and E-7 and how it pertains to this debate about Christian's sins .

The game you are playing is to respond to the texts given - by switching the context to a non-Bible study theme.

The question is as easy as any JW might ask in that case - trying to switch the context away from the Bible.

The problem is not that the words or the question cannot be "understood".

The problem is that the game has not substantive value in Bible study and as you point out - plays no part at all in properly exegeting the texts that cause so many problems for your view.

What false religion could not thrive under such tactics for switching the context away from the Bible??

In the dark ages the RCC often got stuck on this or that Bible discussion and "needed" to switch the topic to something other than a close review of the texts that were so problematic for their man-made traditions.

I will stick with the Bible on this one.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

You admit that your little game.....

in Christ,

Bob

Brother, please repent of this sin immediately! I don't want you to go to hell.

 

[BobRyan]

I am content to point out that you admit to your game - and that it has nothing to do with exegeting the texts you are now avoiding.

still.



Perhaps this is a golden opportunity for the rest to return to a review of the texts you are sidestepping.

thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob