God calls you to be an overcomer by living a holy life!

[BobRyan]

I think you listed those texts - as pointed out by me this way

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Matt 18 Christ explains it as "Forgiveness revoked".

In Romans 11 we see that those who stand only by their faith should "fear for if He did not spare them NEITHER will he spare you".

In 1Cor 6 "do not be deceived" is the message to the saints - the church at Corinth. And then Paul tells them who it is that does not go to heaven.

James 2 - we are told that we should live as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty.

In 1John 2:3-6 the one who claims to know Christ and DOES NOT keep His Commandments, does not "walk as He walked" - is lying.

What part of this is up to E-7 to explain how often he sins - before we do our own exegesis??

Exegesis doesn't apply to my question. How often would you say you sin

Yes that was exactly the dodge response I was talking about.

Bible texts...

Then dodge.

Maybe it is time to go shopping for a car.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

I am content to point out that you admit to your game -

in Christ,

Bob

ugh raying: five times bearing a false witness.....

and that it has nothing to do with exegeting the texts

YES!!!!!!! THat is what I said!!!!!!!!

Please confess your sin before it is too late Bob raying:

 

[BobRyan]

I believe this is the list of texts you quoted - when dodging them with that "game".

Are you doing it because you do not have a Bible solution for this where OSAS would survive it??

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Matt 18 Christ explains it as "Forgiveness revoked".

In Romans 11 we see that those who stand only by their faith should "fear for if He did not spare them NEITHER will he spare you".

In 1Cor 6 "do not be deceived" is the message to the saints - the church at Corinth. And then Paul tells them who it is that does not go to heaven.

James 2 - we are told that we should live as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty.

In 1John 2:3-6 the one who claims to know Christ and DOES NOT keep His Commandments, does not "walk as He walked" - is lying.

What part of this is up to E-7 to explain how often he sins - before we do our own exegesis??

 

[steaver]

Let me assure our readers that this issue concerning a Christian's sin is very important and that my question directed towards this issue is no game at all as it was falsely reported unto you that I admitted to any such thing.

The creator of this thread has said oftentimes, and I quote "no BornAgainChristian will be saved who has unforgiveness or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life" and has this very quote as his signature.

Now, it is of the utmost importance that we understand just what his definition is of "habitual sin". Otherwise, he has nothing to support his preaching.

If I made such a statement, I would have no problem defining what I meant, but I cannot get into his mind. This is why it would be most helpful if he would just simply tell us how his own life shows no pattern of habitual sin (whatever that means). So I ask the question, how often do you sin, once a month, twice a month, twice a year, etc.?

Still no answer, just whinning that it does not exegesis a proof text from brother Bob. Well, we need to know what 'habitual sin" is, then we can move on and understand where he is coming from. Hopefully, he or Bob can tell us how holy their own lives are, how often they fail, and then we can at least understand what they see "habitual sin" as being or not being.

 

[BobRyan]

I will grant you that he should have quoted 1John 3:4-10 1John 2:3-6 and 1John 5:2-3 instead of making that statement himself - so that you would be going after the Word of God - not the tiny point about "does E-7 ever sin and if so how often".

If he makes the statement instead of quoting the Bible - then you can pretend he is the author, the source, and go after him for more details. I prefer to stick with the Bible.

In that one point we agree.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Another moronic post ... When will they ever end? ... That's my only qvestion.

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

John is talking about every single BAC (except the One) ... past, present, and future!
.

So the Grace of god is inferior than to those sins, correct?

Di you see that if one dies, and still has some sin areas struggling with, even unconssed/unrepenant sins, that causes christian to forfeit their salvation then?

 

[steaver]

I will grant you that he should have quoted 1John 3:4-10 1John 2:3-6 and 1John 5:2-3 instead of making that statement himself - so that you would be going after the Word of God - not the tiny point about "does E-7 ever sin and if so how often".

If he makes the statement instead of quoting the Bible - then you can pretend he is the author, the source, and go after him for more details. I prefer to stick with the Bible.

In that one point we agree.

in Christ,

Bob

Well, it appears that my "tiny point" has got you two all besides yourselves, looking down at the stones in your hands that you have carried around for so long, but just can't seem to find the courage to drop them and cry out to God "Father have mercy on me a sinner".

Would it help you guys if I share my own testimony of how often I sin? Well, I can't actually put a number on it, let me put it this way, I sin way too often, definitely everyday, I know I sin so much that each night when I lay me down to sleep I pray and ask the Lord to forgive me for all my shortcomings (sins) and failures to obey His perfect law. I know E-7 would whip a stone at me for my confession of habitual sinning here (I assume sinning everyday would be considered habitual to him, I have to assume because he refuses to define it for us), but I have to trust God that He will forgive me and see me through to final sanctification at the resurrection. what else can I do? I look in the mirror and I see a sinner, and if not for grace, woe would be me.

At least that is what I believe, by the grace of God go I. I know you two believe it is by grace plus no sinning, boy, I look at myself and that just isn't going to happen, at least it hasn't so far and I have been believing on Jesus for 39 years now. But anyways, it seems you two have got this sinlessness thing all under control, or at least only have it happen once in awhile ( I don't really know because you guys won't share). I sure would like to here your testimony on how often you guys do sin, if at all, and when this rarity happens does it kinda catch you off guard, like you know, it is such a rare thing that you very seldom ever have to include confession in your prayers at night.

 

[BobRyan]

Well, it appears that my "tiny point" has got you two all besides yourselves, .

Is this what you call "all besides yourselves"??

The post went like this --

===================================================

This little rabbit trail of Steaver was solved already --

It went something like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
I will grant you that he should have quoted 1John 3:4-10 1John 2:3-6 and 1John 5:2-3 instead of making that statement himself - so that you would be going after the Word of God - not the tiny point about "does E-7 ever sin and if so how often".

If he makes the statement instead of quoting the Bible - then you can pretend he is the author, the source, and go after him for more details. I prefer to stick with the Bible.

In that one point we agree.

1 John 2
[FONT=&quot]1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[/FONT]
1John 2:4-5 Commandments of Christ -- Word of Christ – Love of God
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3
[FONT=&quot]3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

You see E-7 - If you just quote the Bible then the game of pretending that you are the source of this information - does not get "Played". And only in playing that sort of game -- do you get those trifles about "how often do you sin" - because you have opened the door for the rabbit trail of "going after you" - the one posting - instead of everyone just reading the Bible and doing some basic exegesis. After ALL God is the Author of scripture and who really want to "go after God" with that sort of game that is being played here.

===================================

If quoting the texts instead of E-7 is "all besides yourselves" - so be it - look at the texts for your next game.

in Christ,

Bob
[/FONT]

 

[steaver]

This little rabbit trail of Steaver was solved already --

It went something like this.....

[FONT=&quot]
in Christ,

Bob
[/FONT]

Oh that's right, you already declared it solved, I forgot . Problem is, the question was "how often do you sin?" The only way to solve that "tiny point" would be to give an actual real answer to the actual real question.

Now we have the example of when Jesus pressed the Pharisees for not practicing what they preached, however, Jesus knew the answer to the question and just plain out told them they were hypocrites. I cannot go that far for I do not know if you guys are habitual sinners or not, you won't say, and won't define "habitual" for us. Refusing to give an answer is really just making my point, either way, my point is made, for to answer honestly I believe you guys would pretty much give the same answer I gave, which is you sin every day.

 

[BobRyan]

oh good - another game of "did-too did-not".

1 John 2
[FONT=&quot]1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[/FONT]
1John 2:4-5 Commandments of Christ -- Word of Christ – Love of God
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3
[FONT=&quot]3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

You see E-7 - If you just quote the Bible then the game of pretending that you are the source of this information - does not get "Played". And only in playing that sort of game -- do you get those trifles about "how often do you sin" - because you have opened the door for the rabbit trail of "going after you" - the one posting - instead of everyone just reading the Bible and doing some basic exegesis.

After ALL God is the Author of scripture (not E-7) and who really want to "go after God" with that sort of game that is being played here.

They are 'warring against the text" - if you will let them.

And since I believe in free will - I will gladly let them do it if they wish.
[/FONT]

 

[steaver]

[FONT=&quot]You see E-7 - If you just quote the Bible........[/FONT]

......then you can be just like any other Christian or Atheist for that matter. But we find ourselves on a "debate" board, where exegesis is put forth and challenged with the tough questions about actually applying one's points of view to real life situations, especially how it applies to your own walk with God. And that really takes things to another level beyond just plastering the board with a lot of scripture text in an attempt to divert attention away from a pointed question designed to have one examine themselves to see just how they are measuring up to their own standard they are preaching on to others.

Knowledge without application is meaningless. Good teacher/preachers will always give examples of how the scripture, and their points of view of the scripture, plays out in their own lives and in the lives of others they may know or witness. If you cannot expose your own life to the scrutiny of what you are preaching, then that preaching ultimately falls short of meaningful instruction, points become moot.

I gota hand it to you though Bob, you have tried your best to dismiss the question, but I believe it is to the detriment of your own argument.

 

[evangelist-7]

Each man will give an account of what he did with Christ, not what Christ did with (for) Him.
.

 

[steaver]

Each man will give an account of what he did with Christ, not what Christ did with (for) Him.
.

Amen!

Now about this "habitual sin", could you explain what that is, maybe give an example for us?

 

[evangelist-7]

Now about this "habitual sin", could you explain what that is, maybe give an example for us?

It's a sin that a person does habitually. LOL
On a regular basis, and without repentance (sorrowful change of heart/mind to stop this sin).

With some regular repentance, a BAC and the Holy Spirit would "overcome" it, hopefully fairly soon.
If a BAC does NOT overcome it by death-time (new word), he/she is SOL.
Want me to explain that word also?
.

 

[steaver]

It's a sin that a person does habitually. LOL
On a regular basis, and without repentance (sorrowful change of heart/mind to stop this sin).


.

Ok, that's at least a start. So you believe it has to be a particular sin, like bearing a false witness? So when is it considered "habitual"? If you do it once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year, every other year.

And does it matter that Jesus said if you break one commandment you have broken them all? Would that place any particular sin into a category of all sin and thus if we were to sin a different sin each day we would still be guilty of all sin each day and thus found to be habitual sinners???

And if we do sin each day but confess and repent each day, then are we still found to be habitual sinners, or does the confessing and repenting clear us for the day and we get a clean slate to start off the next day?

 

[steaver]

Another thing we have to consider about this habitual sin doctrine is what if a person does not believe something is a sin?

Like for instance, some people believe drinking alcohol is a sin, or smoking cigarettes, or over eating, etc. While others believe it is no sin at all and partake habitually of these activities.

What then? Should those Christians who believe these things are sin declare to those Christians who do not believe they are sins that they are going to hell?

What about Sabbath Keepers? They believe that not keeping Saturday holy is a sin, thus, all that reject Saturday Sabbath are doing so habitually and thus, according to your pov, they are all hell bound if the Sabbath Keepers are correct. And if they are correct, and they passionately believe they are, then Christians who are not keeping the Sabbath Saturday are all hell bound according to your pov.

 

[BobRyan]

What if a person reads these texts and decides that sin is defined as John defines it in 1John 3:4 - KJV

1 John 2
[FONT=&quot]1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[/FONT]
1John 2:4-5 Commandments of Christ -- Word of Christ – Love of God
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3
[FONT=&quot]3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

......then you can be just like any other Christian or Atheist for that matter. But we find ourselves on a "debate" board, where exegesis is put forth and challenged with the tough questions

You can't exegete the text by ignoring the text and just asking E-7 how often he sins.

That is the point I was making from the start - and you then admitted that your question was not related to exegesis of the text - which gets back to your comment above.

So at that point - we need to look at the texts themselves.

Big step.

Forward.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

You can't exegete the text by ignoring the text and just asking E-7 how often he sins.

That is the point I was making from the start - and you then admitted that your question was not related to exegesis of the text - which gets back to your comment above.

So at that point - we need to look at the texts themselves.

Big step.

Forward.

in Christ,

Bob

Exegesis was done on the text. We did look at the text themselves. Reposting the text as an answer to a life application question designed to apply the exegesis is non-instructive, and actually reveals the flaws in one's exegesis, if one so chooses to avoid answering the question.

I feel confident that my question has produced it's intended result, it was a checkmate, since to make a move and answer would have destroyed your position, and to make no move to answer has ended the "game" as you call it, I prefer to call it a "debate". You find yourself out of moves, the only thing you can think of is to repost text and ask for more exegesis, this has already been played. No step forward left for your position, it is officially STUCK - checkmate! :love2:

 

[BobRyan]

Exegesis was done on the text. We did look at the text themselves. Reposting the text as an answer to a life application question designed to :love2:

I started posting those texts on this thread - starting at post 17. Where is your exegesis showing that they don't mean what they say?