Featured Shifting the Blame

calvinists NOT splitting up the Body of Christ, its the Chrsitians from BOTH camps that are walking in the Flesh, not the Spirit!

 

We ahve "easy Grace" and "Jesus is Lord of all/or Lord of nothing" think truth is in the Middle!

 

So Van, why do you think God is obligated to impart 100% understanding of His ways to you personally for the doctrine to be correct?

 

Romans 10:16-21

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


His hands were stretched forth to Israel and they apparently wouldn't come.

 

Van, these are the points that ageman made that I found salient.

 

I'm not sure the answer is "come to Calvinism", either. Coming "close" to it would be good enough for me.:laugh:

 

Must be "divine revelation" , as van has seemed to have had some "interesting" viewpoints theology wise all this time!

 

Van posted...

x2 Thank you God for opening my understanding regarding this false teaching.

 

.



The heretical doctrines of calvinism were not invented until hundreds of years after th apostles walked this earth. They couldnt possibly have held to the calvinist falshoods

 

It's called Vanology.

 

He cannot answer the question I have posed four times, "why do you think God is obligated to impart 100% understanding of His ways to you personally for the doctrine to be correct?"

His theological theories are a mystery to me, as I believe this is the Van he names himself after.

 

Are you saying that a Christian that holds to any form of calvinism also must be a heretic by sheer definition then?

 

These particular soteriological doctrines have been known as Calvinism for more than 450 years, but all of them can be found in Holy Writ --their source. Jesus and the Apostles were very Calvinistic. See John chapters 10 and 17,Romans 8 and 9, Ephesians 1 to start your way back to Truth. I'll give you more medicine once you master these.

 

Man, you would be fun to have a Guinness with at a pub...maybe some fish & chips...and just have some laughs. Could probably do that with Pastor Durant, Thinking STUFF, Quantum and Arbo. Everyone else (maybe not Amy & Willis) is a stick in the mud.:thumbs:

 

Pippon..You posted..

Well, regarding your scriptures "being known" for 450 years, that means nothing if they are not properly understood. (see the word of faith bunch)

The scriptures, unfortunetly, have been butchered by the calvinists., just like the "word of faithers".

 

Perhaps you will then take the Scriptures the Calvinists "butchered" and show exactly how they should be interpreted?

Why not start with:

Ephesians 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
​

If you can show any human volition in that passage, please point it out. If not then it is to be understood that Calvinism did not "butcher" the Scriptures.

 

These Scripture passages have been cut straight by Calvinists for more than 450 years.

But you can also check the writings of Tyndale,Wycliffe,Bradwardine,Huss and a host of others before Calvin first set his pen to paper;Calvinists before Calvin.

 

Depravity is total: Arminius states "In this [fallen] state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace."[11]
Atonement is intended for all: Jesus's death was for all people, Jesus draws all people to himself, and all people have opportunity for salvation through faith.[12]
Jesus's death satisfies God's justice: The penalty for the sins of the elect is paid in full through Jesus's work on the cross. Thus Christ's atonement is intended for all, but requires faith to be effected. Arminius states that "Justification, when used for the act of a Judge, is either purely the imputation of righteousness through mercy… or that man is justified before God… according to the rigor of justice without any forgiveness."[13] Stephen Ashby clarifies: "Arminius allowed for only two possible ways in which the sinner might be justified: (1) by our absolute and perfect adherence to the law, or (2) purely by God's imputation of Christ's righteousness."[14]
Grace is resistible: God takes initiative in the salvation process and his grace comes to all people. This grace (often called prevenient or pre-regenerating grace) acts on all people to convince them of the Gospel, draw them strongly towards salvation, and enable the possibility of sincere faith. Picirilli states that "indeed this grace is so close to regeneration that it inevitably leads to regeneration unless finally resisted." [15] The offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied




Depravity is total: Arminius states "In this [fallen] state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace."[11]
Atonement is intended for all: Jesus's death was for all people, Jesus draws all people to himself, and all people have opportunity for salvation through faith.[12]
Jesus's death satisfies God's justice: The penalty for the sins of the elect is paid in full through Jesus's work on the cross. Thus Christ's atonement is intended for all, but requires faith to be effected. Arminius states that "Justification, when used for the act of a Judge, is either purely the imputation of righteousness through mercy… or that man is justified before God… according to the rigor of justice without any forgiveness."[13] Stephen Ashby clarifies: "Arminius allowed for only two possible ways in which the sinner might be justified: (1) by our absolute and perfect adherence to the law, or (2) purely by God's imputation of Christ's righteousness."[14]
Grace is resistible: God takes initiative in the salvation process and his grace comes to all people. This grace (often called prevenient or pre-regenerating grace) acts on all people to convince them of the Gospel, draw them strongly towards salvation, and enable the possibility of sincere faith. Picirilli states that "indeed this grace is so close to regeneration that it inevitably leads to regeneration unless finally resisted." [15] The offer of salvation through grace does not act rresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism#Classical_Arminianism

 

Doesn't surprise me one bit that you would use a van full of pot smoking mysticists to attempt to prove your point

 

Ah, that funny smoke might expalin much of van's ramblings!