Featured Who Does God WANT to Save?

We've heard it over and over again on this thread that God only saves the elect, and that God only WANTED to save the elect. Calvinism notoriously interprets John 3:16 "For God so love the world" as that Jesus was speaking ONLY to the elect.

However, there's a problem with this view. If Calvinism is intent on this kind of exegesis, then it needs to be consistently applied to all of Scripture. You can't limit the audience in John 3:16, and then expand the audience elsewhere. Either John 3:16 was limited to those elect in that context, or the Calvinist must concede that it actually does apply to the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Now if it applies ONLY to those elect in John 3:16, then the Calvinist faces a conundrum in Isaiah 53:5-6

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

So who is the audience here? ISRAEL. Thus if the Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 applies only to elect Gentiles, then the same logic of interpretation applied to Isaiah 53 would have the "we" "us" "our" of verses 5-6 limiting the death and atonement of Christ to the Jews.

Now where else in the Bible does God state who He desires to save, and to whom is salvation offered?

1 Timothy 2:3-4

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Unfortunately, the universalists misinterpret this as God saving everyone, and the Calvinist can't interpret it at all. It is a simple statement that God DESIRES to have all to be saved, not that He will save all, but that He wills all to be saved.

1 Timothy 4:10

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

Jesus IS the Saviour of all men, but not all men RECEIVE Him as Saviour. Notice the difference between "Saviour of ALL MEN" and "SPECIALLY those that believe". There are 2 different categories here and Jesus is Saviour over BOTH. The Calvinist will reply, "but that makes Jesus a universalist. He can't be a Saviour and not save". WRONG.

If a man is caught in a burning building, and a fireman is on a ladder and offers the man a way out, that fireman is the victims only hope and answer to escaping the fire. Even if the victim doesn't take the fireman's hand, that fireman is STILL that person's "Saviour" because the Fireman is the only way out, whether the victim accepts that or not.

2 Peter 3:9

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Here the Calvinist focuses on "us-ward" and says this verse is only talking about believers. How foolish to think that God is worred about BELIEVERS PERISHING and that His will is to call those to repentance that HAVE ALREADY REPENTED.

The Calvinist must force an interpretation of this verse that mangles the plain, clear, and common sense view of the verse, that God's will is that ALL come to Him in repentance.

I John 2:2, " And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 4:14 "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

Ezekiel 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Hebrews 2:9, " But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

John 4:42, "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."

And finally, compare this statement of the Baptist Confession to John 3:17.

Of God's Eternal Decree, Westminster Confession ch 3:

"III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death."

Now John 3:17:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

The Calvinist holds that God determined the damnation of all "non elect" but John 3:17 clearly says that Christ did not come to condemn the world.

Christ clearly came to die FOR ALL, and though He is in fact, the Saviour and Fireman to ALL, only those who willingly RECEIVE HIM FIRST (John 1:12) have to power to become the sons of God and are sealed by the Holy Spirit AFTER they believe (Eph 1:13), which ALL, elect or not, can accept or reject.

" And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?" Numbers 14:11

 

Predicted Responses

I will go ahead here and now and predict the responses from the determinsts so that they can just cut and paste one of their responses and save time typing it out.

*Those verse don't mean that (with no explanation of what they DO mean)

*Your theology is warped, and skewed

*Typical Arminian view

*You are calling Jesus a universalist

*Election is clearly taught in the Bible and the Calvinists have it right, and you are wrong.

*You don't understand Calvinism

*Your hatred for Calvinists is obvious

*Will you ever stop promoting your 'agenda'?

*John 3:16 clearly means only the elect

*1 Peter 1:4, Ephesians 2:1-5, Romans 9:21-23, Acts 13:47, Romans 8:29-30

*Your exegesis is flawed and illogical

*You should study the Bible more

*God knows the future so He saves people because of His foreknowledge

*So did Christ die for those who go to hell?

*If Christ died for all, then He failed as a Saviour

*"You are a joke to all rational thought"

*Fill in the blank_____________

 

אם אתה רוצה לדבר בעברית, תן לנו לדון בעברית

 

Why don't you actually answer the OP, or carry on your debate with me in Hebrew since you know it so well!