We've heard it over and over again on this thread that God only saves the elect, and that God only WANTED to save the elect.
You are arguing against a superlapsarian Calvinistic point of view that demands that God decreed an unfallen creatable people to be saved while electing the rest to hell. I am not a superlapsarian. So your argument and intepretations do not apply to my position which is entirely different than a superlapsarian. I do not believe God elected anyone to hell - no need to - as all were condemned already (Jn. 3:18).
My position comes from a sublapsarian position that places election after the fall not before it. Hence, the grounds of universal condemnation already existed prior to being "chosen to salvation" (2 Ths. 2:13) as "vessels of MERCY". "Mercy" presupposes just condemnation and election is "to" salvation which presupposes the fall and just condemnation of all men.
Hence, Divine justice condemns all men equally and God would be glorified in the just condemnation of all sinners as none are righteous, no not one, and all equally not only deserve condemnation equally but all equally freely choose to resist God (Acts 7:51) and are all equally at war with God (Rom. 8:7).
Therefore, election to salvation is not based upon anything found in the elect that is not equally found in the non-elect but election is based purely upon the "good pleasure" of God's will or something found in His purpose of Grace to save an underserving people IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES "to the praise of the glory of His grace." He is therefore EQUALLY glorified in the just condemnation of the non-elect as He is in the salvation of the elect. His justice is glorified in them while his mercy is glorified in the elect - both equally glorify God.
Nothing explains the salvation of the elect except God's unconditional love and amazing grace. Nothing in them makes them any better than those God freely allows to continue in their enmity and justly deserve eternal wrath. Nothing! Their salvation is wholly of Grace and based wholly in God's divine purpose of grace alone.
The New Testament is written from a Jewish background and the Jews believed "salvation is of the Jews" (Jn. 4) and one must become a Jew by circumcision to be saved. The term "world" from a Jewish perspective had one of several different applications:
1. Non-Jews or the Gentiles - Rom. 11:12
2. All mankind without distinction of race, class or gender - 1 Jn. 2:2; Jn. 3:16
3. A system of evil.
4. The physical creation
5. Orderly arrangement
6. hyperbole
7. all mankind without exception
The non-elect are not elected to hell but simply allowed to continue according to their own free will in spite of internal and external revelation/warnings. Hence, they resist all the provisions of prevenient grace.
The elect are saved in spite of themselves, their resistance, their enmity due to pure grace alone.
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
So who is the audience here? ISRAEL. Thus if the Calvinist interpretation of John 3:16 applies only to elect Gentiles, then the same logic of interpretation applied to Isaiah 53 would have the "we" "us" "our" of verses 5-6 limiting the death and atonement of Christ to the Jews.
In all redemptive passages the "us" in both the Old and New Testament refer to the elect. Among the Jews it is the "remnant" elect according to grace (Heb. 11:5) and in the New Testament among the Gentiles it is the "elect" (Rom. 8:29-30; 11:1-28).
1 Timothy 2:3-4
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
In context, Paul precedes this by asking Timothy to pray for "all" men, meaning all classes of men, all kinds of men, all races of men." The term "all" refers to "all" mankind without distinction of class, race, or gender not all mankind without exception as many were suffering the wrath of God already in hell.
1 Timothy 4:10
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
He is the only savior under heaven given to all men. No other Savior has been provided by God for the salvation of men. However, according to the purpose of election He is the effectual Savior of them.
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
"US-wARD" or the elect and none will perish as ALL the Father gives the Son will come to him in faith and "of all" given "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING.
I John 2:2, " And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
He is writing Jewish believers who have been given the "old" commandment as well as the "new". The "whole world" refers to all classes, races, and genders without distinction. This is something that the Jewish Christians struggled with for the first ten chapters in the book of Acts.
1 John 4:14 "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."
He is talking to a Samaritan woman unto whom he also said "salvation is of the Jews" but not restricted to the Jews but the whole world = every race, class and gender including this woman and so all men without distinction.
Ezekiel 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
The context is talking about TEMPORAL judgement which very soon was unleashed upon Israel by Babylon. God is glorified in the just condemnation of sinners but takes no pleasure in it. God is glorfied in sin (Psa. 76:10) as no sin or evil is permitted except that which God will ultimately work for the good of his people (rom. 8:28 "all things work for good") and for his glory.
Hebrews 2:9, " But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
Again the immediate context is talking about the "captain" of the seed of Abraham or the elect.
John 4:42, "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."
Again, the context is in response to "salvation is of the Jews" and the Jews would have no dealings with Samaritans but Jesus is the Savior of all mankind WITHOUT DISTINCTION of race, class or gender.
And finally, compare this statement of the Baptist Confession to John 3:17.
Of God's Eternal Decree,
Westminster Confession ch 3:
"III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life;
and others foreordained to everlasting death."
This is the superlapsarian position but not my position. I believe in divine reprobation but based upon their own just condemnation and complete freedom of will to continue in their enmity toward God (Rom. 8:7).
Now John 3:17:
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
He did not have to because the very next verse tells you why- They were condemned ALREADY (v. 18).
Christ clearly came to die FOR ALL, and though He is in fact, the Saviour and Fireman to ALL, only those who willingly RECEIVE HIM FIRST (John 1:12) have to power to become the sons of God and are sealed by the Holy Spirit AFTER they believe (Eph 1:13), which ALL, elect or not, can accept or reject.
Those who "recieved him" did so because they were not born of the will of man but of the will of God (Jn. 1:13). The word "power" represents the Greek word "exousia" or "authority" and this authority is derived from the new birth and the new believing heart given in new birth (Ezek. 36:26). Epheisans 1:13 concludes the Ephesians 1:4-13 passage rather than begins it. Election is TO salvation (2 Thes. 2:13) not because of salvation. You are confusing consequences with cause.
" And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?" Numbers 14:11
I am glad you brought this verse up as it presents the real problem. Compare this text with Deuteronomy 5:29 and 29:4 and then the solution to both is provided in Ezek. 36:26-27.
(or better yet, learn how to write interrogative sentences and don't use one at all !)