No pastors in the Bible

[alvin]

THis is a very, very simple matter to understand. The people who advocated the strongest for the office of the pastor are pastors. They have a livelihood to protect. Lets face it, pastors need churches but churches with Elders do not need pastors.

 

[alvin]

again....show me where a pastor is a "overseer." The word bishop is NOT in the Bible! ἐπισκοπῆς is in the bible and it is the same thing as an Elder. A Elder is the "overseer" of the Church, chosen by the Holy Spirit to shepherd the church.

 

[Jerome]

Again...I reply...there are no bishops in the bible as there are no pastors in the Bible. I ask "Are you saying a pastor is an Elder?" If so why does he have a special title? Why does he not identify himself as an elder among other elders of the Church....and where are the Elders that Paul worked to appoint in every Church and are called by the Holy Spirit?

Yes, where is your 'College of Elders' [?] in say, Philippians?

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons...

 

[alvin]

Christians are defiant in their support of the Bible and consider it to infallible, without error, and the rule that supersedes all rules...yet on this one point they surrender their high view of the Scriptures and disband the Elders in favor of someone who wishes to be considered the God appointed leader of the Church. Upon what authority has this occurred? Every church leader should be working to correct this problem.

 

[alvin]

I believe all of you know what the Bible says is true in this matter regardless of what our preachers are advocating.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

THis is a very, very simple matter to understand. The people who advocated the strongest for the office of the pastor are pastors. They have a livelihood to protect. Lets face it, pastors need churches but churches with Elders do not need pastors.

I guess you would consider my style of church & ministry more along the lines of what you are saying.....we are Old School Baptists & our "Elders" do not draw a salary / Rather they maintain secular jobs. IE we have no operating costs like salaries but we hope our brethren will be generous with time, skills & money. We also refer to each other as Brother & Sister.

 

[Zenas]

By the way, can you provide me an example of Virgil of Virgil using the word pastor in Latin, not a translation but in his works?

Yes. It may take some time but I can and will if I get around to it. Don't worry about the translation because it won't say "pastor", it would say "shepherd." Also since Virgil was not a Christian he used the Latin word "pastor" in its original classical sense which is one who tends to sheep. Incidentally I am not aware of any works of Virgil written in Greek.

 

[alvin]

I am holding back tears my brother. I am speechless. I pray I will live to see the day that all our churches are like yours. I have been a pastor for many years and we are working on reestablishing Elders in our church and I hope I am chosen to serve in such a capacity. It is difficult to step down as their pastor but I know what the Bible says and I know it is only my ego that makes it difficult at all. I am glad I came to this realization before it was to late. Send blessings to your Church on my behalf

 

[alvin]

Sorry, last post was for Earth Wind and Fire...

 

[alvin]

Yes, where is your 'College of Elders' [?] in say, Philippians?

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons...

Again, there are no bishops in the Bible. You make my argument by saying Elders and deacons...yes those are the only two offices in the Church. Not, Elder, Bishop and pastors or any other combination. It is a college of Elders because it is always in the plural. Always more than one. Otherwise you are back to being under the influence of a single person, like a priest or pastor.

 

[Salty]

Alvin, why do you have to step down. Would the church rename the position as elder?

 

[alvin]

Can anyone show me where the word Elder is only in the singular? Thus it is a college of Elders. That is the way the Holy Spirit set it up thus that is the way it should be.

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

Makes you wonder who these wolves are that draw away disciples unto themselves.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is no where in scripture where it says there shall be multiple elders in in every church and this is the only model there is to ever be thus sayeth the Lord.

It is just not there.

 

[alvin]

Alvin, why do you have to step down. Would the chruch rename the position as elder?

Yes, we will end the position of pastor. My name will be placed among others who have served the Church faithfully for a yet unspecified number of years and will be selected as our Elders. Hopefully, I might be counted among that number. I Timothy 3:1-7 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. It is well to aspire to be an Overseer/Elder. With great responsibility and great accountability comes this task. Think on this, no longer will the this task be allotted to those who attend seminary, or feel "called" above others, or have the gift of gab. The Eldership is available to all who serve the Church faithfully and give of themselves without do so out of it being a professional career.
Thank you for that question.

 

[Jerome]

Who exactly will be doing the choosing?

 

[alvin]

There is no where in scripture where it says there shall be multiple elders in in every church and this is the only model there is to ever be thus sayeth the Lord.

It is just not there.

In fact everywhere you look you see Elders is always plural. Plural means more than one. By the way I notice you a Rev. Are you aware that term means "worthy of honor?" That term is also not in the Bible. All we do when we come up with these titles is further separate ourselves from those we seek to minister.

 

[alvin]

Who exactly will be doing the choosing?

Since we have no Elders, what we are considering/discussing is that Elders will be selected by the membership of the Church of those having been a member of good standing for a period of three years, accompanied by a time of prayer and fasting. I am open to any suggestions you might have that may be helpful.

 

[Revmitchell]

In fact everywhere you look you see Elders is always plural. Plural means more than one. By the way I notice you a Rev. Are you aware that term means "worthy of honor?" That term is also not in the Bible. All we do when we come up with these titles is further separate ourselves from those we seek to minister.

Again there is no thus saith the Lord. And young Timothy was a single pastor. Just because something was practiced does not make it equivalent to God does not want us to do it any other way. Otherwise we should all sell all that we have and start a commune holding all things in common.

 

[Salty]

Since we have no Elders, what we are considering/discussing is that Elders will be selected by the membership of the Church of those having been a member of good standing for a period of three years, accompanied by a time of prayer and fasting. I am open to any suggestions you might have that may be helpful.

Okay, so you will have a board of Elders - How many will there there be? will one be the senior elder? Will decisions be made by majority vote of the Elders, Will only one do most of the preaching, how long will an Elder serve, Will the Music minister be on equal footing with other Elders? too many questions......

 

[Jerome]

selected by the membership of the Church of those having been a member of good standing for a period of three years

Uh oh. That sounds kind of like. . .congregational governance.