No pastors in the Bible

[Revmitchell]

No we do not hold all things in common. That said perhaps you can now answer my question if you are a pastor. I can understand your anti-biblical stance if you are a pastor defending your position of authority and livelihood, but it is difficult to believe anyone would reject their Bible and accept the teaching of someone who contravenes the very work of the Holy Spirit. Churches returning the Elders to their place causes fear among all pastors who fear losing their livelihood and the prospect of going out in the world, like everyone else in their congregation, and finding employment. As I said, ego is the what keeps pastors in place and Elders out of theirs. If Paul or Peter were to visit our churches today they would ask, "where are your Elders?" How would you answer them? Simple question.

I can assure you nothing you post here threatens to make any changes in my life. I would also add that the spirit in which you have used to post shows the validity of your false interpretation of scripture and the incorrect method by which you have reached your conclusion. That being said I have no problem with elder led churches and has pastored in them. The sad part is your semantics over terms which does nothing to indicate the role the leaders have in the church. There are pastors in elder led churches with multiple elders.

 

[alvin]

Wow, if the OP is true there would be no missionaries planting churches.

And yes- I am a pastor, unashamedly. I am an undershepherd of the Lord Jesus, called to pastor his people in this flock. I wear the title humbly, soberly, and gratefully.

I am not against elder rule, but most small churches do not have enough qualified men to have more than one elder.

the Elders are in your church. How hard have you tried to reinstate the Elder led Church? The Holy Spirit would see that every church would have Elders. It does not matter how humble you are, if you love the church you will begin the process of restoring the elders and maybe they will call you to be an Elder.

 

[alvin]

I can assure you nothing you post here threatens to make any changes in my life. I would also add that the spirit in which you have used to post shows the validity of your false interpretation of scripture and the incorrect method by which you have reached your conclusion.

I have yet to interpret any passage, I have just quoted them without interpretation. The Bible says what it says. I am glad your church has Elders. That means much. I not quite sure why you do not defend the practice. Why is that? Curious. Do not have to reply to question but am curious as to why you think Elders are a bad idea and yet have them at your church.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have yet to interpret any passage, I have just quoted them without interpretation.

This is just dishonest. Again I will leave you to your misery.

 

[alvin]

To call belief in the office of Pastor "anti-biblical" is a stretch. But you have already stretched the truth to fit your own conclusions.

There is nothing sinful or egotistic about taking a salary as a pastor. Paul would ask you where you got that silly idea.

Of course the office of the pastor is anti-biblical. It is not in the Bible and it took the place of the God ordained office of the Elders. Yes, I think anti-biblical is accurate. What would you call it.

 

[alvin]

This is possibly due to the translators (KJV and others) of the NT because of the influence of the Septuagint (LXX) where the Greek translation of the Hebrew word raw'aw (shepherd) is often translated as ποιμένας being of the same root as in Ephesians 4:11.

Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.​

HankD

Not true. The word in Ephesians 4:11 that is translated as pastor is tranlated everywhere else in the Bible as shepherd. Only here in Eph 4:1 do we not translate from Greek to English (shepherd) but change it from Greek to Latin (pastor). God did not put the word pastor in 4:11, He put shepherd. Man changed it to pastor.

 

[Revmitchell]

Origin:
1325–75; < Latin pāstor shepherd, literally, feeder, equivalent to pās-, base of pāscere to put to pasture, feed + -tor -tor; replacing Middle English pastour < Anglo-French


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pastor?s=t

 

[Mexdeaf]

the Elders are in your church. How hard have you tried to reinstate the Elder led Church? The Holy Spirit would see that every church would have Elders. It does not matter how humble you are, if you love the church you will begin the process of restoring the elders and maybe they will call you to be an Elder.

Our new church plant currently consists of 6 members, four of which are women, and the other man is not qualified to be an elder.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Of course the office of the pastor is anti-biblical. It is not in the Bible and it took the place of the God ordained office of the Elders. Yes, I think anti-biblical is accurate. What would you call it.

Are you a Yankee? You certainly would qualify based on your stubbornness and unwillingness to admit that you might, in fact, be wrong.

And on this issue, my friend, you are way, way off.

 

[John of Japan]

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads ever on the BB! The office of pastor being "un-Biblical" or even "anti-biblical"? How weird!

Here is Japan it was Sunday morning when you guys were discussing this, so I was at church being totally "un-Biblical" as I pastored (meaning shepherded)--loving my sheep, feeding my sheep, counseling my sheep, seeking to find more sheep for the Lord. Too bad I didn't know how anti-God I was being!

Poor Jesus, who didn't know how wrong He was to be the "Chief Shepherd" (pastor). Poor Peter. He didn't know how wrong Jesus was to tell him to "feed my sheep." Which is of course what "pastoring" is all about.

And poor me, who can't have a "Biblical" church with multiple elders as Mexdeaf pointed out because I only have three men in my little mission field church: one who doesn't want to do any ministry, one just saved and a baby Christian (may be still on drugs) and one who is not yet saved.

 

[alvin]

Origin:
1325–75; < Latin pāstor shepherd, literally, feeder, equivalent to pās-, base of pāscere to put to pasture, feed + -tor -tor; replacing Middle English pastour < Anglo-French


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pastor?s=t

Ok, what does this have to do with the discussion? Is this supposed to justify the pastor having the right to overthrow the Elders?

 

[alvin]

Our new church plant currently consists of 6 members, four of which are women, and the other man is not qualified to be an elder.

Then abandon the term pastor and ask the church to recognize you as an Elder.

 

[Revmitchell]

Ok, what does this have to do with the discussion? Is this supposed to justify the pastor having the right to overthrow the Elders?

What it shows is that you do not know what in the world you are talking about with regards to the use of the word pastor. You are pouncing on terminology and using that to imply that what the pastor does in the church is not what scripture tells us to do. The term pastor does not make the role any different than the term elder.

 

[alvin]

Are you a Yankee? You certainly would qualify based on your stubbornness and unwillingness to admit that you might, in fact, be wrong.

And on this issue, my friend, you are way, way off.

Please quote me one single scripture showing me that I am wrong. Are you saying Peter was not an Elder, that Paul appointed elders in all his churches, the Elders are identified in the NT as the Overseers and shepherds or the Church and that the Holy Spirit sanctioned this? Are you saying that the word in Ephesians 4:11 does not mean shepherd like it does in the rest of the Bible? God did not put pastor there man did.

 

[Revmitchell]

Please quote me one single scripture showing me that I am wrong. Are you saying Peter was not an Elder, that Paul appointed elders in all his churches, the Elders are identified in the NT as the Overseers and shepherds or the Church and that the Holy Spirit sanctioned this? Are you saying that the word in Ephesians 4:11 does not mean shepherd like it does in the rest of the Bible? God did not put pastor there man did.

Pastor and shepherd are the same thing.

 

[alvin]

What it shows is that you do not know what in the world you are talking about with regards to the use of the word pastor. You are pouncing on terminology and using that to imply that what the pastor does in the church is not what scripture tells us to do. The term pastor does not make the role any different than the term elder.

To which I reply, again, then you should call yourself an Elder and stop using the non biblical term of office. Join the body of Elders as an equal.

 

[Revmitchell]

To which I reply, again, then you should call yourself an Elder and stop using the non biblical term of office. Join the body of Elders as an equal.

Is the term "trinity" non biblical?

 

[alvin]

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads ever on the BB! The office of pastor being "un-Biblical" or even "anti-biblical"? How weird!

Here is Japan it was Sunday morning when you guys were discussing this, so I was at church being totally "un-Biblical" as I pastored (meaning shepherded)--loving my sheep, feeding my sheep, counseling my sheep, seeking to find more sheep for the Lord. Too bad I didn't know how anti-God I was being!

Poor Jesus, who didn't know how wrong He was to be the "Chief Shepherd" (pastor). Poor Peter. He didn't know how wrong Jesus was to tell him to "feed my sheep." Which is of course what "pastoring" is all about.

And poor me, who can't have a "Biblical" church with multiple elders as Mexdeaf pointed out because I only have three men in my little mission field church: one who doesn't want to do any ministry, one just saved and a baby Christian (may be still on drugs) and one who is not yet saved.

Obviously you did not read all the earlier posts. Please quote me one single scripture showing me that I am wrong. Are you saying Peter was not an Elder, that Paul appointed elders in all his churches, the Elders are identified in the NT as the Overseers and shepherds or the Church and that the Holy Spirit sanctioned this? Are you saying that the word in Ephesians 4:11 does not mean shepherd like it does in the rest of the Bible? God did not put pastor there man did. Nowhere in the NT will you find a pastor. NOWHERE. Elders/Overseers are the only one charge to manage the church, rule the church, shepherd the church. Sorry to cut and paste.

 

[alvin]

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads ever on the BB! The office of pastor being "un-Biblical" or even "anti-biblical"? How weird!

Here is Japan it was Sunday morning when you guys were discussing this, so I was at church being totally "un-Biblical" as I pastored (meaning shepherded)--loving my sheep, feeding my sheep, counseling my sheep, seeking to find more sheep for the Lord. Too bad I didn't know how anti-God I was being!

Poor Jesus, who didn't know how wrong He was to be the "Chief Shepherd" (pastor). Poor Peter. He didn't know how wrong Jesus was to tell him to "feed my sheep." Which is of course what "pastoring" is all about.

And poor me, who can't have a "Biblical" church with multiple elders as Mexdeaf pointed out because I only have three men in my little mission field church: one who doesn't want to do any ministry, one just saved and a baby Christian (may be still on drugs) and one who is not yet saved.

I do not accept your excuse for having a small church and thus you can ignore the Bible on this matter. If you are an Elder then you only need one more. What is so hard about that? Have you taught your church about this? No. When are you? Are you going to continue to be a pastor and ignore the fact that the role of the pastor supplanted the Elders? Ego is more important to some that than biblical truth...simple and obvious biblical truth.

I call the neglect of the elders, the overthrow of the elders for the idea of office not found in the Bible anti biblical, what do you call it?

 

[Revmitchell]

I do not accept your excuse for having a small church and thus you can ignore the Bible on this matter. If you are an Elder then you only need one more. What is so hard about that?

Here you show your ignorance about the difficulties of ministry and even especially missions. I suggest you get some experience before you try to speak anymore on this. I seriously doubt that you have pastored for 40 years. Nothing you have said in this thread reflects that kind of experience.