Where did Ellen White Get her Revelations from?

[BobRyan]

One more thing. I do not post the list above as if this would convince someone who did not already accept SDA doctrines that Ellen White was a true prophet -- only to provide an example of the kind of spiritual insights she gained as a result of that gift.

The fact is - reading the writings of Ellen White is not the way people become SDA (at least from all the information I have on the subject).

Here is an example of interviews with someone raised Catholic who then became an atheist, an evolutionist professor in a university who engaged in bashing Christian creationists - that tells how he and his wife became a Seventh-day Adventist creationist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-GVqLdyRxs

Notice that reading Ellen White and become SDA does not form a part of his testimony. Though he states that at some point he read one of her books (the "Desire of Ages" the commentary on the life of Christ) when he first became SDA - this is not where the argument is made in favor of becoming SDA.

He discusses both the good aspects and the negative ones in his experience.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Disasters and Wars

In 1902, she warned that the cities around the bay area of California would suffer disaster. She wrote this: "Not long hence, these cities will suffer under the judgment of God. San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Lord will visit them in wrath" (Evangelism, 403-404).

"Not long hence" ?? This is a prediction?? 1906 was not the first earthquake to ever hit the bay area. It was common knowledge that earthquakes happen there.

"San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah". Really?? Are there any resources of evidence you could point to that declares these two cities as emulating Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906??

"the Lord will visit them in wrath". So it was God's wrath coming down upon these cities destroying more than a dozen churches, killing dozens of people, causing 400,000 to be homeless, all because these people were sexually perverted as they were in Sodom and Gomorrah??

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were all ungodly. God said if He would find just ten righteous He would not destroy it. He did not find ten, the few He found He removed before His wrath came upon the city. Ellen claims San Francisco was like Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906, is there any proof of this?

 

[targus]

More Health Examples -

Ellen White counseled that the use of animal products in the diet was harmful and that their use would become even more harmful as time progressed.

So what?

In Counsels on Diet and Foods she also said the drinking tea is a sin and causes diseases...

That drinking tea is an evil that injures the soul...

That drinking tea "loosens tongues" and contributes to gossip...

That tea is a narcotic...

That tea is harmful and poisonous.

So how does all that nonsense make her a prophet?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Disasters and Wars

In 1902, she warned that the cities around the bay area of California would suffer disaster. She wrote this: "Not long hence, these cities will suffer under the judgment of God. San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Lord will visit them in wrath" (Evangelism, 403-404).

The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was a major earthquake that struck San Francisco and the coast of Northern California at 5:12 a.m. on Wednesday, April 18, 1906.[3] Devastating fires broke out in the city and lasted for several days. As a result of the quake and fires, about 3,000 people died[4] and over 80% of San Francisco was destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_San_Francisco_earthquake

"Not long hence" ?? This is a prediction?? 1906 was not the first earthquake to ever hit the bay area. It was common knowledge that earthquakes happen there.

I see - so in your mind 80% of SF gets destroyed every few years so no need to consider this 1906 event as any sort of big deal - after all it happens so often you could say that any time and within 3 or four years - sure enough - 80% of SF is "destroyed once again".

I suppose that if that is the reality in which you live there is really nothing there to look at with the 1902 statement about the upcoming destruction.

But for the rest of us....

The earthquake and resulting fire are remembered as one of the worst natural disasters in the history of the United States[5] alongside the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.[6] The death toll from the earthquake and resulting fire is the greatest loss of life from a natural disaster in California's history.

You have free will and can re-write reality as you wish. I am just presenting facts.

The fact that you need to go to such extremes to turn a blind eye to this evidence - is not a problem for my acceptance of the facts. I freely admit you have the free will to do as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So what?

In Counsels on Diet and Foods she also said the drinking tea is a sin and causes diseases...

That drinking tea is an evil that injures the soul...

That drinking tea "loosens tongues" and contributes to gossip...

That tea is a narcotic...

That tea is harmful and poisonous.

So how does all that nonsense make her a prophet?

I guess someone who knows a bit more about Caffeine than you apparently do - might be prevailed upon to answer your question.

I am fine knowing that there are those who are not up to speed on the problems with Caffeine and prefer to remain in that state. I am not trying to force education on anyone and I am not arguing that anyone here should not be allowed to exercise their free will.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

I guess someone who knows a bit more about Caffeine than you apparently do - might be prevailed upon to answer your question.

I am fine knowing that there are those who are not up to speed on the problems with Caffeine and prefer to remain in that state. I am not trying to force education on anyone and I am not arguing that anyone here should not be allowed to exercise their free will.

in Christ,

Bob

Caffine intake is "sinful"?

Caffine intake is "harmful to the soul"?

Scriptural support please.

 

[TCassidy]

Like all false prophets she got her "revelations" from Satan.

 

[steaver]

Originally Posted by BobRyan


I see - so in your mind 80% of SF gets destroyed every few years so no need to consider this 1906 event as any sort of big deal - after all it happens so often you could say that any time and within 3 or four years - sure enough - 80% of SF is "destroyed once again".

I suppose that if that is the reality in which you live there is really nothing there to look at with the 1902 statement about the upcoming destruction.

But for the rest of us....


You have free will and can re-write reality as you wish. I am just presenting facts.

The fact that you need to go to such extremes to turn a blind eye to this evidence - is not a problem for my acceptance of the facts. I freely admit you have the free will to do as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

I believe she compared the city to Sodom and Gomorrah. I noticed you did not present the evidence that these two cities were as Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906.

You must have missed these glaring inconsistences, so I will repost them for ya...

"San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah". Really?? Are there any resources of evidence you could point to that declares these two cities as emulating Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906??

"the Lord will visit them in wrath". So it was God's wrath coming down upon these cities destroying more than a dozen churches, killing dozens of people, causing 400,000 to be homeless, all because these people were sexually perverted as they were in Sodom and Gomorrah??

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were all ungodly. God said if He would find just ten righteous He would not destroy it. He did not find ten, the few He found He removed before His wrath came upon the city. Ellen claims San Francisco was like Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906, is there any proof of this?

 

[targus]

Notice that reading Ellen White and become SDA does not form a part of his testimony.

That's because SDA make it a point to hide her until the prospective convert is tricked into thinking that SDA's are Christian.

Why do SDA publications not include the words "Seventh Day Adventist" anywhere?

Why do SDA publications go by other names?

 

[BobRyan]

I believe she compared the city to Sodom and Gomorrah. I noticed you did not present the evidence that these two cities were as Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906.

You must have missed these glaring inconsistences, so I will repost them for ya...

I pointed out that instead of your much-assumed "oh this happens every few years" idea - the actual facts of real life - is that the destruction that came soon after the 1902 warning - was "historic" by every measure for San Francisco, for California - for the entire U.S.

You then sweep aside your former speculation as if you did not take it seriously anyway and it was not that important of a point - and latch on to the issue of just how much sin was in San Francisco at the turn of the 20th century.

Is this where you expect the group to "imagine" your next point - that SF was the model of moral values at the turn of the 20th century?

Really - that is the place you want to go?

I find it amazing.

Silver discoveries, including the Comstock Lode in 1859, further drove rapid population growth.[30] With hordes of fortune seekers streaming through the city, lawlessness was common, and the Barbary Coast section of town gained notoriety as a haven for criminals, prostitution, and gambling.[31] ... By 1890, San Francisco's population approached 300,000, making it the eighth largest city in the U.S. at the time. Around 1901, San Francisco was a major city known for its flamboyant style, stately hotels, ostentatious mansions on Nob Hill, and a thriving arts scene.[35] The first North American plague epidemic was the San Francisco plague of 1900–1904.[36]

followed by

The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was a major earthquake that struck San Francisco and the coast of Northern California at 5:12 a.m. on Wednesday, April 18, 1906.[3] Devastating fires broke out in the city and lasted for several days. As a result of the quake and fires, about 3,000 people died[4] and over 80% of San Francisco was destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_Sa...sco_earthquake

The earthquake and resulting fire are remembered as one of the worst natural disasters in the history of the United States[5] alongside the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.[6] The death toll from the earthquake and resulting fire is the greatest loss of life from a natural disaster in California's history.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I pointed out that instead of your much-assumed "oh this happens every few years" idea - the actual facts of real life - is that the destruction that came soon after the 1902 warning - was "historic" by every measure for San Francisco, for California - for the entire U.S.

You then sweep aside your former speculation as if you did not take it seriously anyway

Basically I point out in the post above - that your any-ol-excuse will do model does not work out in real life for the objective unbiased reader, because excuse after excuse made of assumption and speculation falls by the wayside when contrasted with real life facts.

I am not saying you cannot choose that path all day long. We all have free will.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Caffine intake is "sinful"?

Caffeine intake is "harmful to the soul"?

Also true of alcohol - LSD, and various other drugs.

Sometimes stating the obvious is simply the role you put me in.

I don't mind that you are making my job easy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

Also true of alcohol - LSD, and various other drugs.

Sometimes stating the obvious is simply the role you put me in.

I don't mind that you are making my job easy.

in Christ,

Bob

Stating the obvious?

To you the ingestion of tea has the same effects on the human body as the ingestion of "alcohol - LSD, and various other drugs"? :laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

twisty turning on every post "still" Targus??

You asked if taking drugs is really all that harmful to the soul - and made your stand on the the drug caffeine.

My response is that "yes" taking drugs is harmful the the soul. (Just stating the obvious). And I listed a few examples that even our most casual readers here might be aware of.

The fact that you seem to be unaware that Caffeine is a drug - cannot be my fault.

Have another turn at your twisty-turning machine and see what else you can come up with. It is a fun game.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Ellen White strongly affirmed the Gospel - and this is easily found in devotional books such as "Steps to Christ" and also her commentary on the life of Christ "Desire of Ages".

in Christ,

Bob

She denied that we are are saved by grace alone, thru faith alone as paul stated under a real revealtion from God, as she held to one MUST keepthe Sabbath and the law in order to get 'really saved and kept saved!"

 

[steaver]

I pointed out that instead of your much-assumed "oh this happens every few years" idea - the actual facts of real life - is that the destruction that came soon after the 1902 warning - was "historic" by every measure for San Francisco, for California - for the entire U.S.



in Christ,

Bob

"Historic" doesn't add anything to prove her prediction that earthquakes happen in San Francisco, common knowledge. The real problem is with her declaring the cities as emulating Sodom and Gomorrah, which of course you still provided no proof of such sexual perversion, and 100% perversion to boot. As you say...just pointing out the obvious.

Silver discoveries, including the Comstock Lode in 1859, further drove rapid population growth.[30] With hordes of fortune seekers streaming through the city, lawlessness was common, and the Barbary Coast section of town gained notoriety as a haven for criminals, prostitution, and gambling.[31] ... By 1890, San Francisco's population approached 300,000, making it the eighth largest city in the U.S. at the time. Around 1901, San Francisco was a major city known for its flamboyant style, stately hotels, ostentatious mansions on Nob Hill, and a thriving arts scene.[35] The first North American plague epidemic was the San Francisco plague of 1900–1904.[36]

Yes, lawlessness, prostitution, gambling and also home of tens of thousands of Christians who, according to EGW, suffered the wrath of God. If she at the least knew the scriptures well she would have known that God's wrath does not come down on His children. She was specific, to her detriment, she said the cities had become as Sodom and Gomorrah, we know this is false, we also know God's wrath is reserved only for those who reject His salvation in Jesus Christ. We know that God removed all the righteous before He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, this was not done in these cities. This all makes her testimony false and not of God.

Just looking at the facts...but you have free will to reject the obvious...

 

[targus]

twisty turning on every post "still" Targus??

You asked if taking drugs is really all that harmful to the soul - and made your stand on the the drug caffeine.

My response is that "yes" taking drugs is harmful the the soul. (Just stating the obvious). And I listed a few examples that even our most casual readers here might be aware of.

Classic SDA debate deceit - misquoting.

I did not ask if "taking drugs is really all that harmful to the soul."

I asked how "Caffeine intake is "harmful to the soul?"

Your response that caffeine is a drug and that drugs are harmful to the soul.

So tell me do you ever use antibiotics or any other medications?

Are you then a Christian Scientist or merely a hypocrite?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
"Not long hence" ?? This is a prediction?? 1906 was not the first earthquake to ever hit the bay area. It was common knowledge that earthquakes happen there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steaver
I believe she compared the city to Sodom and Gomorrah. I noticed you did not present the evidence that these two cities were as Sodom and Gomorrah in 1906.

You must have missed these glaring inconsistences, so I will repost them for ya...

By contrast - in "real life" we had -

Quote:
The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was a major earthquake that struck San Francisco and the coast of Northern California at 5:12 a.m. on Wednesday, April 18, 1906.[3] Devastating fires broke out in the city and lasted for several days. As a result of the quake and fires, about 3,000 people died[4] and over 80% of San Francisco was destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_Sa...sco_earthquake

The earthquake and resulting fire are remembered as one of the worst natural disasters in the history of the United States[5] alongside the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.[6] The death toll from the earthquake and resulting fire is the greatest loss of life from a natural disaster in California's history.

I pointed out that instead of your much-assumed "oh this happens every few years" idea - the actual facts of real life - is that the destruction that came soon after the 1902 warning - was "historic" by every measure for San Francisco, for California - for the entire U.S.

You then sweep aside your former speculation as if you did not take it seriously anyway and it was not that important of a point - and latch on to the issue of just how much sin was in San Francisco at the turn of the 20th century.

Is this where you expect the group to "imagine" your next point - that SF was the model of moral values at the turn of the 20th century?

Really - that is the place you want to go?

I find it amazing that by contrast to your supposition - in "real life" we had - .

Quote:
Silver discoveries, including the Comstock Lode in 1859, further drove rapid population growth.[30] With hordes of fortune seekers streaming through the city, lawlessness was common, and the Barbary Coast section of town gained notoriety as a haven for criminals, prostitution, and gambling.[31] ... By 1890, San Francisco's population approached 300,000, making it the eighth largest city in the U.S. at the time. Around 1901, San Francisco was a major city known for its flamboyant style, stately hotels, ostentatious mansions on Nob Hill, and a thriving arts scene.[35] The first North American plague epidemic was the San Francisco plague of 1900–1904.[36]

"Historic" doesn't add anything to prove her prediction that earthquakes happen in San Francisco, common knowledge.

If you are willing to ignore enough details in classic any ol excuse will do fashion - then maybe.

But for the objective unbiased reader your "earth quakes happen - anyone can predict one in the next 4 years" style of response is to be contrasted with the "real life" event.

Quote:
The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was a major earthquake that struck San Francisco and the coast of Northern California at 5:12 a.m. on Wednesday, April 18, 1906.[3] Devastating fires broke out in the city and lasted for several days. As a result of the quake and fires, about 3,000 people died[4] and over 80% of San Francisco was destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_Sa...sco_earthquake

The earthquake and resulting fire are remembered as one of the worst natural disasters in the history of the United States[5] alongside the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.[6] The death toll from the earthquake and resulting fire is the greatest loss of life from a natural disaster in California's history.

To which you add your "detail details" response starting with "historic does not matter".

Wonderful.

The real problem is with her declaring the cities as emulating Sodom and Gomorrah,

To which you were already given the "real life" answer.

Quote:
Silver discoveries, including the Comstock Lode in 1859, further drove rapid population growth.[30] With hordes of fortune seekers streaming through the city, lawlessness was common, and the Barbary Coast section of town gained notoriety as a haven for criminals, prostitution, and gambling.[31] ... By 1890, San Francisco's population approached 300,000, making it the eighth largest city in the U.S. at the time. Around 1901, San Francisco was a major city known for its flamboyant style, stately hotels, ostentatious mansions on Nob Hill, and a thriving arts scene.[35] The first North American plague epidemic was the San Francisco plague of 1900–1904.[36]

And then you much expected "just so many details to be ignored" style of response.

Which I again say that you are welcome to resort to if that is all you have.

I leave you to defend the moral purity of those described in that wikipedia comment on SF even before the 1902 statement.

Or perhaps you were thinking of "Blaming me" or "blaming Ellen White" for the disaster of 1906 and how she should have spared more people - as if she had "control over it".

In any case I think the fact that you have to go there in your response - is instructive for the unbiased objective reader.

I am happy to let the facts of "real life" remain.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

By contrast - in "real life" we had -

I pointed out that instead of your much-assumed "oh this happens every few years" idea - the actual facts of real life - is that the destruction that came soon after the 1902 warning - was "historic" by every measure for San Francisco, for California - for the entire U.S.

You then sweep aside your former speculation as if you did not take it seriously anyway and it was not that important of a point - and latch on to the issue of just how much sin was in San Francisco at the turn of the 20th century.

Is this where you expect the group to "imagine" your next point - that SF was the model of moral values at the turn of the 20th century?

Really - that is the place you want to go?

I find it amazing that by contrast to your supposition - in "real life" we had - .






If you are willing to ignore enough details in classic any ol excuse will do fashion - then maybe.

But for the objective unbiased reader your "earth quakes happen - anyone can predict one in the next 4 years" style of response is to be contrasted with the "real life" event.

To which you add your "detail details" response starting with "historic does not matter".

Wonderful.





To which you were already given the "real life" answer.

And then you much expected "just so many details to be ignored" style of response.

Which I again say that you are welcome to resort to if that is all you have.

I leave you to defend the moral purity of those described in that wikipedia comment on SF even before the 1902 statement.

Or perhaps you were thinking of "Blaming me" or "blaming Ellen White" for the disaster of 1906 and how she should have spared more people - as if she had "control over it".

In any case I think the fact that you have to go there in your response - is instructive for the unbiased objective reader.

I am happy to let the facts of "real life" remain.

in Christ,

Bob

Stick to the Bible truths!
Ellen denied the Cross, denied real gospel, and had OT covenant laws in place as salvation for people!

 

[targus]

Classic SDA debate deceit - misquoting.

I did not ask if "taking drugs is really all that harmful to the soul."

I asked how "Caffeine intake is "harmful to the soul?"

Your response that caffeine is a drug and that drugs are harmful to the soul.

So tell me do you ever use antibiotics or any other medications?

Are you then a Christian Scientist or merely a hypocrite?

Bumped for bobryan...