To avoid a thread derailment ...

[poncho]

And when has our wages been lowered and our standard of living declined?

When the American working class became temp employees. When the un-official unemployment number hit 20%. When 47% of Americans started living on food stamps.

If it weren't for food stamps we'd be seeing soup and bread lines longer than during the great drepression. You know what they say "out of sight out of mind".

 

[InTheLight]

When the American working class became temp employees. When the un-official unemployment number hit 20%. When 47% of Americans started living on food stamps.

If it weren't for food stamps we'd be seeing soup and bread lines longer than during the great drepression. You know what they say "out of sight out of mind".

So it hasn't happened.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

And when has our wages been lowered and our standard of living declined?

Since January 20, 2009.

 

[saturneptune]

Since January 20, 2009.

Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between a Republican apologist and a patriot.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between a Republican apologist and a patriot.

It wouldn't have mattered who was sworn into office that day, if this economy had been the result, I'd be panning his/her performance just as loudly. That's the part you don't understand. I AM a patriot, not just a party hack.

 

[saturneptune]

It wouldn't have mattered who was sworn into office that day, if this economy had been the result, I'd be panning his/her performance just as loudly. That's the part you don't understand. I AM a patriot, not just a party hack.

Yes indeedy, that is why you admire McCain and Romney. That is why you think the Republicans have gone to bat for the right to life.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Yes indeedy, that is why you admire McCain and Romney. That is why you think the Republicans have gone to bat for the right to life.

Yep. The Republicans do, after all, have a plank in their platform to that effect, while the opposition removed theirs in 1972. They also clearly outvoted a forced reinsertion of the name of God into their platform at the 2012 convention. So you go figure who is antiabortion, and why.

 

[poncho]

So it hasn't happened.

Sounds like you have been pretty well insulated from what most everyone else out here has been going through. Congrats ITL I hope reality never catches up with you like it has so many others.

 

[saturneptune]

Yep. The Republicans do, after all, have a plank in their platform to that effect, while the opposition removed theirs in 1972. They also clearly outvoted a forced reinsertion of the name of God into their platform at the 2012 convention. So you go figure who is antiabortion, and why.

IMO, the last legitimate President was Ronald Reagan. Planks in a party platform are meaningless. What is meaningful are the laws passed and the rates of abortion during Republican Presidencies, Republican Congresses, and terms of conservative Supreme Courts. Those are the numbers that matter.

As far as the morality of Republicans, I voted for Richard Nixon, even got to shake his hand, and admired him as a President until the truth came out.

So during the primaries, since you claim to work within the Republican Party, what have you done locally in Kansas to nominate a conservative nominee like Rand Paul? Or do you just sit in front of the TV as the mainstream Republicans nominate another liberal, big government candidate? I believe you have had several decent candidates from your state (other than Dole).

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So during the primaries, since you claim to work within the Republican Party ...

Really? Where exactly did I say that?

...what have you done locally in Kansas to nominate a conservative nominee like Rand Paul?

Absolutely nothing. Paul is nothing more than a wannabe with no real plan. If I was going to work for a candidate, it would be for one who isn't one: Ben Carson. He's the only person on the horizon that I can see actually meaning what he says, and being a true conservative.

 

[poncho]

What exactly is a true conservative these days? Do true conservatives have their own platform and if so what is it?

 

[InTheLight]

Sounds like you have been pretty well insulated from what most everyone else out here has been going through. Congrats ITL I hope reality never catches up with you like it has so many others.

I'm not denying that people are hurting in this economy. But lowering of our standard of living? Hardly. Lowered wages? No, but jobs with less than 32 hours a week becoming more popular because of ObamaCare.

 

[poncho]

I'm not denying that people are hurting in this economy. But lowering of our standard of living? Hardly. Lowered wages? No, but jobs with less than 32 hours a week becoming more popular because of ObamaCare.

Okay lets say wages have stayed the same then. Our currency has been devalued so those same wages will only buy a portion of what they used to. Do you buy your own groceries and pay your own utility bills? If so you know your standard of living has been reduced.

Our manufacturing base has moved to other countries. Those jobs aren't coming back. They've been replaced by lower wage service jobs. That has lowered American's wages. I remember how George Bush redefined flipping burgers as manufacturing just so the government could fudge the official numbers. You probably don't remember that though.

Used to be a man could strap on his tool belt and make a decent living in construction. Not so anymoe. The influx of a cheaper Mexican work force has put and end to that. The Mexicans will work alot cheaper. The pay for construction jobs has gone way down as a result. It all adds up to lower wages and a lower standard of living for the rest of us.

America has been deindustrialized. And now with our coal fired plants being shut down while China is building more it's getting even worse. . Face it man the banks and corporations have moved their investments to other countries like China and India while our government uses our tax dollars to pay for them to move. Google US government pays General Motors to move to China.

 

[InTheLight]

Okay lets say wages have stayed the same then. Our currency has been devalued so those same wages will only buy a portion of what they used to. Do you buy your own groceries and pay your own utility bills? If so you know your standard of living has been reduced.

Our manufacturing base has moved to other countries. Those jobs aren't coming back. They've been replaced by lower wage service jobs. That has lowered American's wages. I remember how George Bush redefined flipping burgers as manufacturing just so the government could fudge the official numbers. You probably don't remember that though.

Used to be a man could strap on his tool belt and make a decent living in construction. Not so anymoe. The influx of a cheaper Mexican work force has put and end to that. The Mexicans will work alot cheaper. The pay for construction jobs has gone way down as a result. It all adds up to lower wages and a lower standard of living for the rest of us.

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. America's workforce is not about consumer goods manufacturing or construction anymore, it's about high-tech jobs. Times change, people need to roll with it instead of lamenting the fact that roofing jobs are being taken over by Mexicans. Used to be a man good make a good living as a farrier. I miss the good 'ol days...

 

[poncho]

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. America's workforce is not about consumer goods manufacturing or construction anymore, it's about high-tech jobs. Times change, people need to roll with it instead of lamenting the fact that roofing jobs are being taken over by Mexicans. Used to be a man good make a good living as a farrier. I miss the good 'ol days...

Really? I work with a good friend of mine that creates software for the glazing industry. Go to www.glazierscenter to see his software. His programers are all in India. Why? They work for less than half of what American programers will work for.

How is that helping American workers?

 

[InTheLight]

Really? I work with a good friend of mine that creates software for the glazing industry. His programers are all in India. Why? They work for less than half of what American programers will work for.

How is that helping American workers?

Anecdotal evidence is not indicative of a system wide reality.

 

[poncho]

Anecdotal evidence is not indicative of a system wide reality.

You really haven't been paying much attention to reality if you think that. Where have you been living the last 30 years? Nevermind I know the answer to that. You've been living in the false left vs right paradigm. How much does Goldman Sachs pay you to propagandize for them? What ever it is it ain't enough. You should get a raise for the outstanding work you've been doing for them.

 

[InTheLight]

You really haven't been paying much attention to reality if you think that.

LOL! You broke the irony meter!

Where have you been living the last 30 years? Nevermind I know the answer to that. You've been living in the false left vs right paradigm. How much does Goldman Sachs pay you to propagandize for them? What ever it is it ain't enough. You should get a raise for the outstanding work you've been doing for them.

Divert, distract, and change the subject. Classic.

 

[poncho]

LOL! You broke the irony meter!



Divert, distract, and change the subject. Classic.

I've known for some time now that reality has no place in your world ITL. You can look right at it and not see it. Amazing.

I feel good the rest of the world is waking up. Wish you'd come along with us but if you prefer to stay in la la land that's up to you.

Some of us still want our children to have a future.

 

[InTheLight]

I've known for some time now that reality has no place in your world ITL. You can look right at it and not see it. Amazing.

I feel good the rest of the world is waking up. Wish you'd come along with us but if you prefer to stay in la la land that's up to you.

Some of us still want our children to have a future.

Divert, distract, and change the subject. Classic.

The U.S. no longer manufactures many consumer goods but we are world leaders in airplane manufacturing, large machinery and equipment manufacturing, earth moving equipment, computers, servers and networking equipment, telecommunications networks and devices, defense and weapons systems, pharmaceuticals, automobiles and automobile parts, electronic components (integrated circuits, etc.), satellites and space based electronic equipment, avionics electronics, etc, (and tobacco). Our focus has changed from consumer to industrial goods but since consumers buy stuff that says Made in China (or elsewhere) they incorrectly assume our manufacturing base is in deep trouble.