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Freewill or Election? Or both?

steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
preacher4truth said:
Man's will has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, and this fact is proven Biblically, yet we still have several who still want to make it so. They'll preach salvation is all of God though, but will still argue their unscriptural view that it has to do with mans will -- which yet again is proven not to be a part of salvation. It is instead all of God.
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See, I would agree that man's will has nothing to do with regeneration. Man cannot regenerate themselves. What man can do though is choose to believe and call upon Jesus Christ to save them, then the will is up to God whether or not to save/regenerate. But of course, God has promised that all who call upon Him, He will save, so we can preach assuredly that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It's right here in this passage....

Romans10:13...."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

You see the calling is prior to the saving.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
steaver said:
See, I would agree that man's will has nothing to do with regeneration. Man cannot regenerate themselves. What man can do though is choose to believe and call upon Jesus Christ to save them, then the will is up to God whether or not to save/regenerate. But of course, God has promised that all who call upon Him, He will save, so we can preach assuredly that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It's right here in this passage....

Romans10:13...."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

You see the calling is prior to the saving.
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So the difference is whether or not God must draw man or man must seek God? (I can easily see Romans 10:13 fitting into both views).
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
preacher4truth said:
Man's will has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, and this fact is proven Biblically, yet we still have several who still want to make it so. They'll preach salvation is all of God though, but will still argue their unscriptural view that it has to do with mans will -- which yet again is proven not to be a part of salvation. It is instead all of God.
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Jesus and His Apostles were VERY sure that His death would bring a real and definite salvation to sinners intended to get saved by Him, not a maybe potential one!
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
God ordained that Jesus would be the one to betray the Lord, as a direct fulfillment of OT prophecies, but Judas also chose to do that!

Same fashion, God ordained that Jesus would come and MUST die upon the Cross, but evil and wicked sinners like you and me still did what they wanted to nail him there!

Gods foreknowledge NOT in a passive sensem, as just that he foreknows all things to happen, but that He is active in them happening also, as in salvation, knows those who will accept jesus, as His will causes that to happen for them!
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Some folks never get it.

 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
steaver said:
See, I would agree that man's will has nothing to do with regeneration. Man cannot regenerate themselves. What man can do though is choose to believe and call upon Jesus Christ to save them, then the will is up to God whether or not to save/regenerate. But of course, God has promised that all who call upon Him, He will save, so we can preach assuredly that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It's right here in this passage....

Romans10:13...."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

You see the calling is prior to the saving.
Click to expand...

When do you expect him to do that when he is spiritually dead in sin Steve?

Of course, we will go round & round with this......But I wont....this is just the same old, same old. The sinner contributes nothing to their own salvation---it is God's work from beginning to end. Yet you constantly attempt to slip the human element back in. Thats your synergistic outlook.....we however are Monergists--meaning we believe that if man contributes any essential part toward his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior. And that is the crucial issue .....IE the sovereignty of Gods grace. "Salvation is of the Lord"--Jonah 2:9

BTW....We do preach that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
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P

preacher4truth

Active Member
steaver said:
See, I would agree that man's will has nothing to do with regeneration. Man cannot regenerate themselves. What man can do though is choose to believe and call upon Jesus Christ to save them, then the will is up to God whether or not to save/regenerate. But of course, God has promised that all who call upon Him, He will save, so we can preach assuredly that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It's right here in this passage....

Romans10:13...."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

You see the calling is prior to the saving.
Click to expand...

Sort of but not quite (in fact is is way off) as Scripture explicitly states it is not according to mans will, choice, decision or desire. Man doesn't 'choose' to believe, nor after such choice is he rewarded salvation, which would be what salvation would become -- a reward -- not a gift.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
When do you expect him to do that when he is spiritually dead in sin Steve?

Of course, we will go round & round with this......But I wont....this is just the same old, same old. The sinner contributes nothing to their own salvation---it is God's work from beginning to end. Yet you constantly attempt to slip the human element back in. Thats your synergistic outlook.....we however are Monergists--meaning we believe that if man contributes any essential part toward his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior. Ans that is the crucial issue .....IE the sovereignty of Gods grace. "Salvation is of the Lord"--Jonah 2:9
Click to expand...
,
If the sinner contributes nothing...its not their salvation, nor did they contribute to their condition in getting to that point. Lets be truly consistent.
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
When do you expect him to do that when he is spiritually dead in sin Steve?
Click to expand...

From what I gather, taking in all the scriptures telling man to make a decision for God, and there are plenty, man is spiritually dead, however God gives man enough light through the Holy Spirit to understand the truth of his condition and the truth about the cure, therefore obligating man to make a decision and holding man accountable for that decision if it be nay. Man is depraved, but I do not agree with "T" that he cannot make a decision when God opens a door for him to walk in if he so chooses.

Of course, we will go round & round with this......But I wont....this is just the same old, same old. The sinner contributes nothing to their own salvation---it is God's work from beginning to end. Yet you constantly attempt to slip the human element back in. Thats your synergistic outlook.....we however are Monergists--meaning we believe that if man contributes any essential part toward his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior. And that is the crucial issue .....IE the sovereignty of Gods grace. "Salvation is of the Lord"--Jonah 2:9
Click to expand...

It is God's work, God allowing man to choose to allow God to do the work does not make man his own savior by any means. I contributed nothing in my salvation. Saying yes is not a work. It is surrendering to God, saying yes Lord, do your saving work in me!
 
P

preacher4truth

Active Member
steaver said:
It is God's work, God allowing man to choose to allow God to do the work does not make man his own savior by any means. I contributed nothing in my salvation. Saying yes is not a work. It is surrendering to God, saying yes Lord, do your saving work in me!
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It is not by human decision -- John 1:13; Romans 9:16. That and faith and belief is according to the power of God, not by the choice or inherent 'faith' of man -- Eph. 1:19.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is the crux of our difference..... "Man is depraved, but I do not agree with "T" that he cannot make a decision when God opens a door for him to walk in if he so chooses."

You see that, right? And I beg to differ.
 
P

preacher4truth

Active Member
Earth said:
This is the crux of our difference..... "Man is depraved, but I do not agree with "T" that he cannot make a decision when God opens a door for him to walk in if he so chooses."

You see that, right? And I beg to differ.
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Sure, because carnal man refuses to believe he can't have a part or choice in the matter. It's just not fair. Man wants to be the one to flip the switch, yet there will be room for no boasting before God -- ever, 1 Cor. 1:26, but of course some are boasting about it this side of the Sun.

John MacArthur preached a great and solid message on this today on www.bottradionetwork.com
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here we go.....

John1:12-13 - "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

What comes first?

Those who received Jesus, who believed on his name, them he gave power, them he gave the right, to be born of God.

It does not say that those born of God then believe.

Then, the born of God, are not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. I can believe all day long til the cows come home and it will not regenerate me. There is nothing I can do to regenerate myself, salvation/regeneration is ALL of God.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
Its a gift.....you get to keep the gift. It becomes yours.
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How does one keep a gift they do not even have the ability nor need to accept as it would VIOLATE YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF BEING COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY PASSIVE? Sorry about the caps, hit the wrong button on my phone and don' t feel like going back to fix it.
 
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