Is The pope Guiding the RCC to adopting gay Marriages?

[Yeshua1]

As while a cardinal, he became involved in the push to make legit civil unions, so would he now be pushing to adopt a tolerant Gay marriage in the RCC?

And maybe among the priesthood also in time?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

As while a cardinal, he became involved in the push to make legit civil unions, so would he now be pushing to adopt a tolerant Gay marriage in the RCC?

And maybe among the priesthood also in time?

He can't it goes against the Magisterium however I question the validity of your statement as you provide no support for your assertion. Stop believing the headlines and read the actual statements made. What you are referring to is not anything Francis said but a spokesman who said

What we are asking is that the laws are respected. We believe that we must propose more comprehensive civil union rights than currently exist, but no gay marriage

Here is the problem in Argentina. Argentina already had a law on the books allowing for civil unions. in 2010 Argentina was about to pass a law legalizing gay Marriage. To thwart that from happening in Argentina the now Pope Francis said modify your civil union law already on the books rather than allowing for Gay Marriage in that country but the other bishops didn't agree with him. As the news article shows.

Faced with the likelihood that gay marriage would be legalized, Bergoglio, then head of the Argentina Bishop’s Conference, suggested during a meeting with bishops in 2010 that the church support civil unions in the country. The idea was rebuked by the bishops, Pope Francis’ authorized biographer, Sergio Rubin, told the Associated Press.

And what you didn't seem to read in that news article is this line

With civil unions, which were already legal in parts of Argentina, off the table, Bergoglio became the public face of the battle against the proposed gay marriage legislation proposed by President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner - http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/pope-francis-supported-civil-unions-as-cardinal/

You also missed this line

Bergoglio encouraged the faithful to protest the legislation, which needed parliamentary approval.

In a letter asking for prayer from Argentine monasteries, Bergoglio called same sex marriage “an attempt to destroy God’s plan” and likened gay adoption to a form of discrimination against children

Unfortunately despite his efforts

Despite his efforts, the law passed in July 2010, making Argentina the first country in South America to recognize same-sex marriage equality.

Yeshua a little reading can go a long way for correct comprehension. You are showing the fallacy that occurs when only reading the news tidbit headlines.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He can't it goes against the Magisterium however I question the validity of your statement as you provide no support for your assertion. Stop believing the headlines and read the actual statements made. What you are referring to is not anything Francis said but a spokesman who said

Here is the problem in Argentina. Argentina already had a law on the books allowing for civil unions. in 2010 Argentina was about to pass a law legalizing gay Marriage. To thwart that from happening in Argentina the now Pope Francis said modify your civil union law already on the books rather than allowing for Gay Marriage in that country but the other bishops didn't agree with him. As the news article shows. And what you didn't seem to read in that news article is this line You also missed this line Unfortunately despite his efforts
Yeshua a little reading can go a long way for correct comprehension. You are showing the fallacy that occurs when only reading the news tidbit headlines.

This poppy isn't sending out the correct message to the world. Rather, he is attempting to play a political correct game by answering questions with questions.

Take what just happened to me just the other day. My cousin Mary go's to a gay pride parade in Savanna last week & puts it on her Faceschnook page, complete with pictures. Then all my other liberal Catholic cousins flag their approval...including her dad who is my uncle ((a man riding from cancer.

I called him and voiced my concerns ...primarially because I'm conserned about him getting into heaven. You know what he tells me....he says the pope says its ok to live an alternate life style. ITS OK!

 

[steaver]

I called him and voiced my concerns ...primarially because I'm conserned about him getting into heaven. You know what he tells me....he says the pope says its ok to live an alternate life style. ITS OK!

Herein lies the heart of the issue, what message from this pope is actually being perceived to his followers?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Herein lies the heart of the issue, what message from this pope is actually being perceived to his followers?

I told you. And if you are a "liberal" you are going to persieve his ambiguous message as justification for a openly gay lifestyle...(they never read the fine print)

And I am going to say that I'm personally disappointed in his current performance. I had high hopes that he had the character & the wearwithall to make positive changes....now all I see is "same old, same old"

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This poppy isn't sending out the correct message to the world. Rather, he is attempting to play a political correct game by answering questions with questions.

Take what just happened to me just the other day. My cousin Mary go's to a gay pride parade in Savanna last week & puts it on her Faceschnook page, complete with pictures. Then all my other liberal Catholic cousins flag their approval...including her dad who is my uncle ((a man riding from cancer.

I called him and voiced my concerns ...primarially because I'm conserned about him getting into heaven. You know what he tells me....he says the pope says its ok to live an alternate life style. ITS OK!

Well, that's not what the Pope said. That is what he wants the Pope to say. Tell him to pick up a Catechism and read it. He will find to his dismay his "alternative" lifestyle still leads to hell.

 

[Zenas]

Yeshua1, DHK and some others will put up anything they can find that besmirches the Catholic Church. Most of their stuff, including the nonsense on this thread, has been filtered and spun by the secular press. Maybe they don't realize the popular press hates the Catholic Church, and all other brands of Christianity for that matter.

If Russell Moore made a statement and the press twisted it out of context, they would be all over the reporter for distorting what Dr. Moore had said. Let's be fair, guys. When the secular press makes a statement about Christianity, any denomination, said statement should be regarded with suspicion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, that's not what the Pope said. That is what he wants the Pope to say. Tell him to pick up a Catechism and read it. He will find to his dismay his "alternative" lifestyle still leads to hell.

Actually I told him to pick up a Bible and read it...but you know Catholics. He would sooner pray to a statue of Mary than study the word of God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeshua1, DHK and some others will put up anything they can find that besmirches the Catholic Church. Most of their stuff, including the nonsense on this thread, has been filtered and spun by the secular press. Maybe they don't realize the popular press hates the Catholic Church, and all other brands of Christianity for that matter.

If Russell Moore made a statement and the press twisted it out of context, they would be all over the reporter for distorting what Dr. Moore had said. Let's be fair, guys. When the secular press makes a statement about Christianity, any denomination, said statement should be regarded with suspicion.

So when is poppy frank going to be frank & direct in his speech Z and quit beating around the Bush. The RCC has a serious homosexual & pedophiles problem. Go on the offence and tackle that instead of always being defensive. Trust me...the world will no longer listen to you or your church and what you do is besmerch the lord by all these cover ups.

 

[Zenas]

So when is poppy frank going to be frank & direct in his speech Z and quit beating around the Bush. The RCC has a serious homosexual & pedophiles problem. Go on the offence and tackle that instead of always being defensive. Trust me...the world will no longer listen to you or your church and what you do is besmerch the lord by all these cover ups.

I agree, homosexuality and pedophilia are huge problems in the Catholic priesthood. The problem would soon go away if they would only ditch the celibacy rule. Interestingly, the Vatican has said for the first time only one week ago that they are open to discussing this very thing but NOT ONE OF THE CATHOLIC HATERS ON THIS BOARD HAS MENTIONED THIS. Interesting.

By the way, you have unwittingly put your finger on one of the problems with non Baptists going on the offensive on this board. They can't because they would be banned and that's understandable because it is a Baptist board.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree, homosexuality and pedophilia are huge problems in the Catholic priesthood. The problem would soon go away if they would only ditch the celibacy rule. Interestingly, the Vatican has said for the first time only one week ago that they are open to discussing this very thing but NOT ONE OF THE CATHOLIC HATERS ON THIS BOARD HAS MENTIONED THIS. Interesting.

By the way, you have unwittingly put your finger on one of the problems with non Baptists going on the offensive on this board. They can't because they would be banned and that's understandable because it is a Baptist board.

I have suggested the eradication of celibacy in the past but Im not a Catholic hater. I also do not believe that eliminating that will not get rid of the homosexual & Pedophile Priests, only jailing them & not hiding them will do that.

 

[DHK]

Yeshua1, DHK and some others will put up anything they can find that besmirches the Catholic Church. Most of their stuff, including the nonsense on this thread, has been filtered and spun by the secular press. Maybe they don't realize the popular press hates the Catholic Church, and all other brands of Christianity for that matter.

You can't hide under a bush and defend this pope all the time.
He is going against the norm, and sometimes against the Catechism or Magesterium. Look at it this way. If there was true unity the popes would not disagree.
Previous popes put dogma first and foremost.
Pope Francis has gone on record as putting "love" as more important than "dogma" something the other popes would not do. In so doing he refuses to talk about such issues as abortion, homosexuality, etc. He sidesteps these issues "in the name of love," a subject much more palatable to the senses. It doesn't offend.

This was the accusation of the fundamentalists a few years ago when they continued preaching against sin, and another segment of evangelical Christianity stopped. They began to be called "New Evangelicals" for their reluctance to preach on the negative, the sins of the people. This also is part of the role of a pastor. Everything in the Bible is not all "lovey-dovey."

If Pope Francis continues to preach on love, mercy, grace, etc. to the neglect of immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and the obvious ugly sins of this world he is not doing what he ought to be doing.
Love is also preaching the truth, as ugly as it may be.
The cross of Christ was not a beautiful sight to behold.

 

[steaver]

You can't hide under a bush and defend this pope all the time.
He is going against the norm, and sometimes against the Catechism or Magesterium. Look at it this way. If there was true unity the popes would not disagree.
Previous popes put dogma first and foremost.
Pope Francis has gone on record as putting "love" as more important than "dogma" something the other popes would not do. In so doing he refuses to talk about such issues as abortion, homosexuality, etc. He sidesteps these issues "in the name of love," a subject much more palatable to the senses. It doesn't offend.

This was the accusation of the fundamentalists a few years ago when they continued preaching against sin, and another segment of evangelical Christianity stopped. They began to be called "New Evangelicals" for their reluctance to preach on the negative, the sins of the people. This also is part of the role of a pastor. Everything in the Bible is not all "lovey-dovey."

If Pope Francis continues to preach on love, mercy, grace, etc. to the neglect of immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and the obvious ugly sins of this world he is not doing what he ought to be doing.
Love is also preaching the truth, as ugly as it may be.
The cross of Christ was not a beautiful sight to behold.

Amen! Good post :thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

You can't hide under a bush and defend this pope all the time.
He is going against the norm, and sometimes against the Catechism or Magesterium. Look at it this way. If there was true unity the popes would not disagree.
Previous popes put dogma first and foremost.
Pope Francis has gone on record as putting "love" as more important than "dogma" something the other popes would not do. In so doing he refuses to talk about such issues as abortion, homosexuality, etc. He sidesteps these issues "in the name of love," a subject much more palatable to the senses. It doesn't offend.

This was the accusation of the fundamentalists a few years ago when they continued preaching against sin, and another segment of evangelical Christianity stopped. They began to be called "New Evangelicals" for their reluctance to preach on the negative, the sins of the people. This also is part of the role of a pastor. Everything in the Bible is not all "lovey-dovey."

If Pope Francis continues to preach on love, mercy, grace, etc. to the neglect of immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and the obvious ugly sins of this world he is not doing what he ought to be doing.
Love is also preaching the truth, as ugly as it may be.
The cross of Christ was not a beautiful sight to behold.

i am NOT a prophet, but just making the prediction that this seems to be all heading to where homosexuality will be acceptable among the priesthood, as long as "one partner/committed", and that gay marriage will be acceptable, and that Rome will have it that really all can come under their banner and get saved!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Actually I told him to pick up a Bible and read it...but you know Catholics. He would sooner pray to a statue of Mary than study the word of God.

Maybe your brand of Catholics do that. Man, we have all sorts of bible studies at my Parish. The Catechism constantly references scripture. So, I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You can't hide under a bush and defend this pope all the time.
He is going against the norm, and sometimes against the Catechism or Magesterium. Look at it this way. If there was true unity the popes would not disagree.

two points 1) show me one time that this Pope has gone against the magisterium. In fact he hasn't. The media headliners are deceptive. 2) Just because there is disagreement doesn't mean there is no unity. In fact, I'm sure in your church there may be people who don't agree with each other about certain things. Yet they are still unified in your church are they not?

 

[DHK]

two points 1) show me one time that this Pope has gone against the magisterium. In fact he hasn't. The media headliners are deceptive. 2) Just because there is disagreement doesn't mean there is no unity. In fact, I'm sure in your church there may be people who don't agree with each other about certain things. Yet they are still unified in your church are they not?

In our church we always have unity in doctrine.
Let me tell you the difference between Charismatics and Baptists, and why our church could never tolerate fellowship with the former.
Baptists have the Bible as our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. The Bible is the foundation of every thing. You know this very well. It is called sola scriptura.

The Chrismatics (at least some of them) may pay lip service to this but they really don't believe it. They believe in an open canon. They don't build their faith upon the Bible.
A baptist allows experience to arise from the Bible, and it is therefore Biblical.
A Charismatic builds upon experience and allows doctrine to arise from his experiences. Therefore you have many strange doctrines in the Charismatic movement--like the nine person trinity of Benny Hinn. Where do you get that? "God told me." It comes from his experience which comes before the Bible.

The Pope is becoming like the Charismatic. Former popes were not like that. He is allowing his experiences (love, etc.) to be the basis for his doctrine. He is putting doctrine aside. The doctrine of homosexuality really doesn't matter anymore. Push it aside. Let's just love one another. He has put experience before doctrine. That was not the stand of the previous popes. It is dangerous ground to stand upon.

 

[steaver]

--like the nine person trinity of Benny Hinn. Where do you get that? "God told me." It comes from his experience which comes before the Bible.

.

Here I go again, just when I thought I heard it all :laugh: , so what is this "nine person trinity" thing? This is a new one for me......

 

[Salty]

...Let me tell you the difference between Charismatics and Baptists,.... Baptists have the Bible as our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. The Bible is the foundation of every thing. You know this very well. It is called sola scriptura.

and how many Baptists use Tradition as authority at times.....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe your brand of Catholics do that. Man, we have all sorts of bible studies at my Parish. The Catechism constantly references scripture. So, I'm not sure what you mean.

1st you would have to go to Scranton to see what I mean. Its like 3rd world. And I was raised with Catholic Catechism so I am resistant to anyone telling me that Baptist Catechism is different. My mind is closed to it ..... Baltimore Catechism did that.

I did use & study the 1689 Baptist Confessions for a while but now its just a reference.....I really learn allot from hard biblical study.