Cessationist or Continuationist?

[Luke2427]

Do you believe the "charismatic gifts" continue in an unbroken strain from the Apostles to this present day or do you believe they ceased in the first century? Why?

 

[Deacon]

You might call me a soft Cessationist
I'm not convinced by any biblical evidences that the gift has stopped.
But I don't think that what we see today is the "tongues" of the NT.

Yet I've heard reports of wonders in other parts of this world and wouldn't be surprised if this gift was still used by God on rare occasion.

Rob

 

[Luke2427]

You might call me a soft Cessationist
I'm not convinced by any biblical evidences that the gift has stopped.
But I don't think that what we see today is the "tongues" of the NT.

Yet I've heard reports of wonders in other parts of this world and wouldn't be surprised if this gift was still used by God on rare occasion.

Rob

Thanks for contributing.

Of course, God can do whatever he wants in any age, but the idea of cessationism, as I am certain you already know, is that God gave the gifts at a certain time for a particular purpose and we should no more expect them to continue in every age than we should expect the signs that accompanied the Exodus or the ministry of Elijah to continue in every age.

The clear pattern in Scripture, and I mean ABUNDANTLY clear, is that God sends a series of miraculous events to one age in order to establish something and once it is established those miracles cease.

One should no more expect to speak in tongues today than he should expect to make an axe head float.

 

[Herald]

I believe and advance the theory that the sign gifts were intended to validate the authority of the Apostles and for the establishment of the Church during the apostolic age*.



*see "Early Christian Doctrine" by J.N.D. Kelly

 

[quantumfaith]

Thanks for contributing.

Of course, God can do whatever he wants in any age, but the idea of cessationism, as I am certain you already know, is that God gave the gifts at a certain time for a particular purpose and we should no more expect them to continue in every age than we should expect the signs that accompanied the Exodus or the ministry of Elijah to continue in every age.

The clear pattern in Scripture, and I mean ABUNDANTLY clear, is that God sends a series of miraculous events to one age in order to establish something and once it is established those miracles cease.

One should no more expect to speak in tongues today than he should expect to make an axe head float.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[ktn4eg]

SIMPLE QUESTION: If tongues (which were actual KNOWN languages at the time of Pentecost, Acts 2:6-12, [but probably not known to the Galilean apostles].....NOT some gibberish) are still in existence today, then why do those who profess to have this gift and are felt called to some foreign people group(s) STILL wind up having to attend a foreign language school so that they can converse with the people to whom they feel God has called them??

 

[Luke2427]

SIMPLE QUESTION: If tongues (which were actual KNOWN languages at the time of Pentecost, Acts 2:6-12, [but probably not known to the Galilean apostles].....NOT some gibberish) are still in existence today, then why do those who profess to have this gift and are felt called to some foreign people group(s) STILL wind up having to attend a foreign language school so that they can converse with the people to whom they feel God has called them??

Very fair question.

 

[prophet]

SIMPLE QUESTION: If tongues (which were actual KNOWN languages at the time of Pentecost, Acts 2:6-12, [but probably not known to the Galilean apostles].....NOT some gibberish) are still in existence today, then why do those who profess to have this gift and are felt called to some foreign people group(s) STILL wind up having to attend a foreign language school so that they can converse with the people to whom they feel God has called them??

Show stopper.

 

[kyredneck]

I don't see the Bible as being willy nilly chocked full of miracles and signs throughout; but these miracles and signs are generally confined to three periods of time. These are the times of Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, and Christ and the Apostles. It doesn't require one to be a Bible scholar to make an honest assessment that yes, there has been a cessation of miracles and signs, and some of these 'gifts' were for the purpose of signs, prophecy and tongues being a couple of them, both to the unbelieving and believing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You might call me a soft Cessationist
I'm not convinced by any biblical evidences that the gift has stopped.
But I don't think that what we see today is the "tongues" of the NT.

Yet I've heard reports of wonders in other parts of this world and wouldn't be surprised if this gift was still used by God on rare occasion.

Rob

Im on your team with this one. :thumbs:

 

[HankD]

Cessationist.

However God still responds to prayer.

James 5

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.​

HankD​

 

[Allan]

I guess the real question is what kind of a cessationist. While the basic understanding of Cessationism is the “miracle gifts” of tongues/ prophesy, and healing have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. The below I got from Monergism.com:

Cessationists in themselves are divided into four main groups:

Concentric Cessationists believe that the miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel (Luther and Calvin, though they were somewhat inconsistent in this position).

Classical cessationists assert that the "sign gifts" such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles and the finishing of the canon of Scripture. They only served as launching pads for the spreading of the Gospel; as affirmations of God's revelation. However, these cessationists do believe that God still occasionally does miracles today, such as healings or divine guidance, so long as these "miracles" do not accredit new doctrine or add to the New Testament canon. Richard Gaffin, John F. MacArthur and Daniel B. Wallace are perhaps the best-known classical cessationists.

Full Cessationists argue that along with no miraculous gifts, there are also no miracles performed by God today. This argument, of course, turns on one's understanding of the term, "miracle." B. B. Warfield, J. Gresham Machen, F.N. Lee.

Consistent Cessationists believe that not only were the miraculous gifts only for the establishment of the first-century church, but the so-called fivefold ministry found in Eph. 4 was also a transitional institution (i.e., There are no more apostles or prophets, but also no more pastors, teachers, or evangelists).

 

[HankD]

I guess the real question is what kind of a cessationist. While the basic understanding of Cessationism is the “miracle gifts” of tongues/ prophesy, and healing have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. The below I got from Monergism.com:

Classical for me, but as the paragraph indicates, I wouldn't limit God.

HankD

 

[prophet]

I believe that the only thing that has ceased completely, is the availability of eyewitnesses of the risen Christ. So ,no more apostles. But there are too many witnesses to God's supernatural working since 100 AD, including in my own ministry, to say that signs and wonders have ceased.
If this puts me in a category, so be it. I am Ind. Baptist, and hardly ever fit anyone's categories.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe and advance the theory that the sign gifts were intended to validate the authority of the Apostles and for the establishment of the Church during the apostolic age*.



*see "Early Christian Doctrine" by J.N.D. Kelly

Would see the Offices of both the prophet/Apsotle as closed since Apsotolic days, the sign gifts such as miracles and healings and speaking revealtion by prophesy ceased...

Do see the gifts such as the offices of teacher/pastor/evangelist and teaching/admin/giving etc still open and going though!

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Is God No Longer a God of Miracles?

Those who believe that miracles do not exist in this age would need to explain one or two of the things I have seen and experienced. And no one should dare to tell me it was the power of the devil or some kind of magic.

A baby was healed from a serious condition at the altar at our church after prayer by pastor and deacons and women of the church and the laying on of hands. We prayed with the expectation of God's intervention and He provided healing. I can honestly say I was granted an unquestioning faith in those moments - as were others - and that baby continues to grow and is an active child today with no trace of her former problems. This is just one thing I have seen.

I wish that some Christians could experience this. I have no claim to any power or righteousness of my own - it was just on this occasion and not something that happens week to week - but it did happen.

That's why I ask - have miracles ceased? My answer is a resounding "no!"

 

[awaken]

Do you believe the "charismatic gifts" continue in an unbroken strain from the Apostles to this present day or do you believe they ceased in the first century? Why?

Well, no secret what I believe on this board...
I believe that the gifts/manifestation of the Holy Spirit is still present today!
1. There is NO biblical evidence indicating they are not valid. If certain gifts have ceased, the burden of proof is on the cessationist to prove it.

2.The purpose of each gift is to build up the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:7; 14:3,26). I do not see the church...past or present...that does not need edification. I do believe that the gifts were important for the birth of the church... but I also see a need for them in the continuation of growth of the church.

3. 1 Corinthians 1:4-9 implies that the gifts of the Spirit are operative until “the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” (v. 7). Ephesians 4:11-13 also dates the duration of the gifts... “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ” (v. 13). 1 Corinthians 14:39 Paul commands “the brethren,” among whom I include myself, “desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.” 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 tells us when they will cease...the perfection of the eternal state...upon Christ’s return.

4.I see the gifts were given to the early church is still needed in todays church..just like the observance of the Lord’s Supper is for today and many biblical practices and patterns explicitly ordained in the NT and nowhere does it say they are temporary or restricted to the first century.

5. Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, dreams and visions, are stated by Peter to be the fruit of the outpouring of the Spirit, the latter being the evidence for the advent and presence of the "last days" (Acts 2:17).

Just to name a few...

 

[awaken]

Thanks for contributing.

The clear pattern in Scripture, and I mean ABUNDANTLY clear, is that God sends a series of miraculous events to one age in order to establish something and once it is established those miracles cease.

One should no more expect to speak in tongues today than he should expect to make an axe head float.

This only proves that in those periods of redemptive history the miraculous were more prevalent than in other times. It does not prove that the miraculous in other times were non-existent. It does not prove that an increase can/will not appear in another era of redemptive history..... perhaps our own.

 

[awaken]

I believe and advance the theory that the sign gifts were intended to validate the authority of the Apostles and for the establishment of the Church during the apostolic age*.



*see "Early Christian Doctrine" by J.N.D. Kelly

Can you prove that this is the only purpose of the gifts? I do not see in scripture where they are reduced to just that purpose!

I see the gifts given for the edification and building up and encouraging and instructing and consoling of the body of Christ.

Another point to consider is...It was not just the apostles that performed signs, wonders, miracles, or exercised so-called “miraculous” gifts.

Does it say in 1 Corinthians 12:7-10 that Paul is saying that only apostles are gifted? Because I see.. “gifts of healings,” “tongues,” “miracles,” etc... are given by the Spirit to ordinary Christians in the church at Corinth for the daily, routine building up of the church.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, no secret what I believe on this board...
I believe that the gifts/manifestation of the Holy Spirit is still present today!
1. There is NO biblical evidence indicating they are not valid. If certain gifts have ceased, the burden of proof is on the cessationist to prove it.

2.The purpose of each gift is to build up the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:7; 14:3,26). I do not see the church...past or present...that does not need edification. I do believe that the gifts were important for the birth of the church... but I also see a need for them in the continuation of growth of the church.

3. 1 Corinthians 1:4-9 implies that the gifts of the Spirit are operative until “the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” (v. 7). Ephesians 4:11-13 also dates the duration of the gifts... “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ” (v. 13). 1 Corinthians 14:39 Paul commands “the brethren,” among whom I include myself, “desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.” 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 tells us when they will cease...the perfection of the eternal state...upon Christ’s return.

4.I see the gifts were given to the early church is still needed in todays church..just like the observance of the Lord’s Supper is for today and many biblical practices and patterns explicitly ordained in the NT and nowhere does it say they are temporary or restricted to the first century.

5. Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, dreams and visions, are stated by Peter to be the fruit of the outpouring of the Spirit, the latter being the evidence for the advent and presence of the "last days" (Acts 2:17).

Just to name a few...

I see you are still committing plagiarism on this board as well as over on the graccentered board.

http://www.amazingdoctrines.com/are-the-spirit-gifts-for-today.html