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Featured Yea, but several people HAVE changed

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Luke2427, Oct 1, 2013.

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  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Why?

    Because God decreed that all man from the time of Adam would be born unable to do otherwise?

    Who, if not God, decided that the nature of fallen man would be such that it COULD not willingly respond even to God's own appeals for reconciliation? I can't remember where anyone has answered that question thus far.


    Do you mean that his will has been determined by someone other than himself prior to his being born? That even if God himself appeals to the sinner to repent that God likewise has decreed him unable to respond to that appeal?

    Who made his nature such that it would not contain the ability to either accept or reject God's appeals for reconcilation?

    So, you believe men are bound by something similar to animal instinct, where by instead of making deliberation, reasoning and coming to a individual conclusion of his own choosing, he is simply reflexive and responsive to stimuli determined by his inborn instinct? Is that your argument?
     
    #41 Skandelon, Oct 2, 2013
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Funny how you were 'free' to do that? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #42 Skandelon, Oct 2, 2013
  3. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Willis,

    Keep on studying brother, and God bless. Your testimony on this issue is similar to mine.
     
    #43 preacher4truth, Oct 2, 2013
  4. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    Yes, that's precisely his argument...and the argument of essentially every Calvinist on B.B.....They have no other recourse than to affirm precisely that.

    I, for one, would like for Salzer to answer every one of your questions directly and simply and with honesty....I won't hold my breath though.

    There were Calvinist Divines in the past who would, and quite a few now who would. But none of the "Pop" Calvinists who are informing the ressurgence of Calvinism in this generation will address them directly and honestly. I fear that you will receive nothing but obfuscation....Luke might answer directly, but not Salzer I fear....maybe. I'd like to see that though.
     
    #44 Inspector Javert, Oct 2, 2013
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    That would be the interpertation of most Hard Shell Baptists.
     
    #45 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 2, 2013
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I am a Calvinist that believes regeneration before faith is ridiculous.

    It is easy for me to believe that person in Africa that never heard the Gospel of their salvation could have life already. It is good emotionally to believe that. So if the message never reaches them it is O.K.

    The truth of the matter they are dead and have no life in them. They will not be saved if they do not hear the Gospel of their salvation having believed.

    Faith without deeds is dead, even more dead without that faith. Faith without love is useless.

    All the good I do before the message is either to point people to myself to tell them how good I am or because I feel sorry for someone and it makes us feel better when we have it better than them. We have personal agendas.All the good before Christ does not make you good it is dirty rags.

    When we know Jesus we do things for Jesus not our self to make ourselves feel better or get people to look at me, but what we do is to get people to look at Jesus.

    We were not regenerated by faith, but faith regenerated you to do for God not yourself.

    That person in Africa needs to hear the Gospel to be regenerated or he will face condemnation no matter what your emotions want to get you to believe.

    John 6:53
    Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

    Acts 1:8
    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

    I don't care for a pat on my back I want to know the truth, Jesus.
     
    #46 psalms109:31, Oct 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2013
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    God uses means.
     
    #47 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Enlighten a poor moron then, genius.
     
    #48 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This is exactly right. I have a paper that's about 15 pages typed that I wrote about 8 years ago BLASTING the DoG.

    I did not yield in any one particular debate but the truths of the DoG articulated in numerous debates broke me down little by little until one day, outside of a debate, I yielded.
     
    #49 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    99% of which has been nothing but meaningless drive-by posts just like this one you post above.
     
    #50 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yea, but Skandelon what is even WORSE than the "foreseeing faith view" is the open theistic view that pretends that God does not know exactly what future is going to unfold.

    It is your view that God CANNOT see the future in the way we do. Oh, you like to pretend that we Calvinists limit God to only being able to SEE the future the way humans do, but the fact is that you limit God to seeing the future ONLY in some mysterious way which most certinaly excludes him having the ability to see the future linearly.

    That's WORSE than the "foreseeing our faith and choosing us based on that view."

    It's illogical and UTTERLY undermines omniscience.

    Omniscience means God sees and knows all things and is thus able to see and know however anything is seeable and knowable INCLUDING but not limited to the way we human beings see and know.

    You limit him to ONLY being able to see some mysterious way which nobody knows.

    We Calvinists say, "Sure, God may see things a thousand ways outside of the way we see them, but he SURELY at LEAST sees them as we see them."

    Historically, before the conglomeration of the two perspectives about a hundred years ago, Baptists were largely either committed Arminians or committed Calvinists.

    Modern IFB and SBC people who deny predestination while embracing eternal security are a weird new breed so far as the history of Baptists goes.
     
    #51 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    It really is true. Coming to the DoG is like getting saved all over again. It really is.

    That's also how Spurgeon described it.
     
    #52 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This is a man who is committed to TRUTH no matter how it rubs the cat.

    I appreciate it.

    It takes character to say, "God I want to know the truth even if it is the OPPOSITE of what I so passionately want it to be."
     
    #53 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yea, and so do all people who give TWO CENTS worth of a HOOT for logic.

    Contra-causal...

    That's just a word like "dry water".

    It relieves you from the responsibility to abide by logical parameters in debate.

    The Calvinist has to answer the WHY question.

    You deliver yourself from it by saying this nonsensical term "CONTRA-CAUSAL, CONTRA-CAUSAL!"
     
    #54 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    That's not true. I've answered it many times.

    Yes.

    Ultimately God... but in a secondary fashion. Just like I make cold when I turn off the heat or I make darkness when I turn off the light. I do not DIRECTLY make them but I intend for them to exist and bring their existence to pass, not by actively creating them, but by withdrawing the thing that is their opposite.

    Evil is nothing but the absence of good. God does not directly create evil- he just removes good and the vacuum is evil.


    No, it's worse.

    He DOES have animal instinct but he also has the moral law of God in his conscience and he STILL disobeys.

    He never does any true good because true good is unselfish and God-centered. Even when he helps an old lady across the street he does not do it for God's glory thus what he does is evil- ALL of what he does.

    Even the PLOWING of the wicked is sin.
     
    #55 Luke2427, Oct 3, 2013
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    When you abandon scripture....you have to say something so carnal logic and human speculations and philosophy rush in to fill the void.:thumbs:
     
    #56 Iconoclast, Oct 3, 2013
  17. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    You don't have to be a genius to recognize the misuse of the word 'absolutely'. Then to say, immediately prior to that misuse: 'the fact of the matter is', makes the untrue statement following it two-fold more egregious.
    The fact is ....it is possible to sway people with debate.
     
    #57 prophet, Oct 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2013
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Your entire doctrine is carnal, built on the backs of men. :thumbs:

    What purpose does your backhanded post serve, IC? Another passive, aggressive calvinist ...talk sweetly about the 'doctrines of GRACE'...while showing very little of it.
     
    #58 webdog, Oct 3, 2013
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Once more, a thread has degenerated into who can throw the most gasoline on the fire. So, it's getting closed.
     
    #59 Squire Robertsson, Oct 3, 2013
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