Featured Does God allow Christians 'Free Will" To Reject salvation/Jesus?

I am a believer and do not think of osas as garbage convincing an unbeliever who does not care about osas is garbage teaching someone who is not saved they are saved is ridiculous.The first thing I said is the only one's who care about osas is believers. A believer should not have any doubt in their salvation Jesus will not lose one He has been given. We as believers are to encourage them to believe and not to doubt and turn away from Him. We do need each others encouragement daily.
It isn't to say it is ok continue in your unbelief you can't lose your salvation.

In a relationship it takes two knowing each other. Coming to the knowledge of the truth is part of our salvation who is Jesus. The wise and learned before Christ He has hidden the truth from them, but not those who listen and learn from Him who is Jesus.

Jesus never knew them because they were evil doers like those who would come later who murdered people in the name of Jesus, like in the crusades and witch burning. We are given a sword and it is the word of God.

 

then they never left the faith or fell from Grace nor were they severed from Christ - because they had never entered faith, never were under Grace, never were joined to Christ in the first place.

That is the problem with using circular reasoning to solve the problem in Gal 5:4.

They do not "Fail to persevere" because in fact they DO Persevere in maintaining their lost state. Therefore not only are the "Fallen from Grace" and "Severed From Christ" statements in Gal 5:4 not addressing the "never joined to Christ" so also the statements in the Bible about those who "fail to keep persevering" not about the never-saved because in fact the never-saved DO Persevere in remaining in their not-saved stated.

So also statements about those joined to Christ in John 15 - who then are cut off - are not about the "never saved".

And the Matt 18 regarding those who were fully "forgiven ALL that debt" who are then subject to "Forgiveness revoked" - not an example of the never-forgiven-to-start-with person simply remaining in an unforgiven state and acting consistently towards others in that he is not forgiving others just as he also has never experienced full and complete forgiveness.

This is why circular reasoning cannot be used in those cases to rescue OSAS.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Circular Arguing

The problem with defining "left the faith" as "becoming un-born again" is it is not necessary so. A person building on the foundation of Christ with worthless stuff has "left the faith" but not lost his or her salvation. So if you start out defining terms to win the debate, that is circular, sir.

Galatians 5:4 (NASB) You have been "severed from Christ" you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

We are saved by grace through faith, which is to say we are saved when God sets us apart spiritually in Christ if He credits our faith as righteousness. Thus it is God's action, and not our beliefs, which results in being put spiritually in Christ.

Severed from Christ refers to trusting in the Law (with its requirement for circumcision) rather than having faith in Christ alone as accomplishing all that is necessary for initial salvation and to sustain that salvation. So again, these people put Christ in their hearts, but kept their faith in justification through obedience to the Law. They went out from us because they were not of us.

God knows who are the believers (wholehearted and not half hearted - sharing trust in Christ with trust in the Law), and He does not credit that "faith" as righteousness (Matthew 13).

Next we have John 15, where the Old Covenant is compared with the New. Under the Old Covenant, no one was regenerated, placed in Christ, born anew, because Christ had not died on the cross to provide the new covenant.

So what is John telling us in John 15: You can be "in Me" but not "abide in Me." Compare verse 2 with verse 5. You claim those of verse 2 were born anew, but I say no way, Christ had not died yet nor sent the Holy Spirit. Verse 5 refers to the faithful under the Old Covenant.

Now verse 10, if you keep My commandments you will abide in My love. The only way to be happy in Jesus is to trust and obey. Thus when we sin (do not keep His commands) we feel regret and sorrow and are not filled with joy. So here Jesus is talking about the future "born anew life indwelt with the Holy Spirit."

So one of the fallacies (or what I think is a fallacy) is to use verses that apply to loss of salvation under the Old Covenant and claim they apply to the New Covenant.

The "cut off" phrase I think is found only in Romans.

But this post is long enough. To repeat my question, if a person is born anew, i.e. they arise in Christ a new creation, how does the individual undo that sovereign act of God?

 

You have the free will to murder someone, you don't have the free will to un-murder them. Your logical conclusions are faulty.

 

Actually, the scriptures seem to say if you are truly sorry for your sins, you will not repent of repenting.

2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

I cannot understand how anybody who truly believes they must believe on Jesus to be saved would ever change their mind and choose to go to hell. You would have to be the most stupid person that ever lived.

 

Even if they do change their mind, God remains faithful. The father of lies still works on believers. Justification...circumcision of the heart...is a one time event. Like a physical circumcision, a spiritual one cannot be undone.

 

Well, the reason I believe we cannot lose salvation is because the scriptures say we are born again of incorruptible seed.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When we are born, our natural spirit is corruptible. It can go bad, it can die. But when we receive Christ we are joined to the Holy Spirit which is incorruptible.

1 Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Our natural spirit has been washed clean and joined to the Holy Spirit, we are a new creature now, a new person with the indwelling Holy Spirit which cannot be corrupted, and which shall never leave.

1 Jhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We don't have to persevere to stay saved once we are born again, we are born of incorruptible seed. We can sin while in this body, but we cannot utterly fall away, because our seed remains in us, that is, the Holy Spirit.