The War on the Charismatic Movement

[evangelist6589]

After last weeks Strange Fire Conference which was attended by many Reformed, one has to wonder how will we respond to the Charismatic movement. The only thing I did not agree with Mac on is that he said that only Reformed were the guardians of the truth and only Reformed had the duty to battle the charismatics. Perhaps I misunderstood Mac incorrectly, but if not remember that even Arminian can battle the Charismatics and are obligated to do so. However many Charismatics come from Arminian theology. So how will you battle the Charismatics? One thing that I have done is that I have posted on FB, Twitter, Blogs, and amazon.com. I have confronted them head on on these sites, and via other means. So how will you battle them? You may also send leaders of Charismatic Churches emails, letters, call them on the phone, or even go on their campus and do some open air preaching and pass out tracts, as what other brothers have done. However this may not be the best approach so proceed with caution.

However I will warn you brothers that if you do this you will be attacked as what someone said of me recently.

This thing where John is on a personal crusade to discredit and so called 'warn' people about his teachings is highly misguided. It plays on the assumption that we are idiots...any interpretation of scripture that is contrary to John's belief is inaccurate...and the Holy Spirit is not my personal guide. This approach is cultic in nature. In essence John...though his motive may be pure...is guilty of the very thing he is condemning another man about.

You will be accused of being unloving, divisive, combative, argumentative, cultic, and some will even tell you that they do not read books for they only read the Bible, and discredit you for reading John MacArthur and other Biblical authors. So I challenge you brothers to engage in the war on the truth for many souls are at stake.

If you want to help engage in the war on the Charismatics you will need a weapon and Mac is giving out FREE COPIES of this book if you join the GTY mailing list.

http://www.gty.org/products/books/451178

 

[InTheLight]

Bring a war to their campuses and "do battle" by open air preaching (read: yelling condemnation) pass out tracts, write emails, send letters, and generally be divisive and abrasive. Sounds like a winning plan.

 

[evangelist6589]

Bring a war to their campuses and "do battle" by open air preaching (read: yelling condemnation) pass out tracts, write emails, send letters, and generally be divisive and abrasive. Sounds like a winning plan.

Lots of souls are at stake man. You need to CONFRONT them with the truth.

 

[JonC]

I guess my suggestion is to avoid becoming guilty of what other’s claim you to be guilty of.

There is a danger to characterize someone as cultic because they do not believe sign gifts have ceased. Although I believe that you are correct in the error presented by the Charismatic movement, I’d urge you to take care. As you know, this has been my major criticism of Mac (although he is one of my favorite preachers) – he tends to demonize opposing views by developing a stereotype based on one extreme in order to build an enemy rather than addressing the enemy at the gate. Personally I believe our greatest weapon is prayer and teaching correct doctrine in our churches.

I wish you the best.

 

[Grasshopper]

http://americanvision.org/9593/reckless-fire-macarthur-strange-conference/#sthash.1J4qZzdD.dpbs

 

[evangelist6589]

http://americanvision.org/9593/reckless-fire-macarthur-strange-conference/#sthash.1J4qZzdD.dpbs

An attack on MacArthur and the conference heh?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I kinda think I wouldn't appreciate someone "campaigning" against MY denomination/theology in the manner suggested here, so I'm not going to do it to anyone else.
Praying, giving out tracts, posting on blogs, etc is one thing...but if someone were to phone me and tell me how wicked and backwards they think Southern baptist church is and how I need to get out of it, I'd probably consider it quite rude...KWIM?

Me, personally, I don't know that I need to "engage" anything. For one, I don't know much about charismatics. And I don't even "engage" catholicism although I'm certainly anything but a catholic. IDK. Not saying you're wrong, guess I just see things a little differently.

 

[evangelist6589]

I guess my suggestion is to avoid becoming guilty of what other’s claim you to be guilty of.

There is a danger to characterize someone as cultic because they do not believe sign gifts have ceased. Although I believe that you are correct in the error presented by the Charismatic movement, I’d urge you to take care. As you know, this has been my major criticism of Mac (although he is one of my favorite preachers) – he tends to demonize opposing views by developing a stereotype based on one extreme in order to build an enemy rather than addressing the enemy at the gate. Personally I believe our greatest weapon is prayer and teaching correct doctrine in our churches.

I wish you the best.

This seems to be the approach by Pastors Erwin Lutzer, Charles Stanley, and David Jeremiah. They are more compassionate about Charismatic.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Lots of souls are at stake man. You need to CONFRONT them with the truth.

Unless charismatics reject that Jesus was a historical person, or anything that would negate the plan of salvation through Him, I fail to see how being charismatic would make one lost?

Even the people I used to know who spoke out against catholicism more passionately than I'd care to to believed that some truly saved people were caught up in that, however misguided they may be--the plan of salvation's main requirement is belief in Jesus, after all.

 

[InTheLight]

Lots of souls are at stake man. You need to CONFRONT them with the truth.

If someone believes in speaking in tongues or other expressive worship or believe in bringing about God's Kingdom on earth they are in error but not necessarily lost. How are their souls at stake?

 

[evangelist6589]

If someone believes in speaking in tongues or other expressive worship of believe in bringing about God's Kingdom on earth they are in error but not necessarily lost. How are their souls at stake?

They are wrong in their eschatology and doctrine, but I am not saying they are headed to hell.

 

[InTheLight]

They are wrong in their eschatology and doctrine, but I am not saying they are headed to hell.

Then you shouldn't have said "souls are at stake."

 

[JonC]

This seems to be the approach by Pastors Erwin Lutzer, Charles Stanley, and David Jeremiah. They are more compassionate about Charismatic.

I can understand that approach. I attend a church which is not Reformed or Arminian (so I don't think that it is just an issue for Reformed or Arminian churches alone). Holding that one is saved through Christ, they may be Christians who hold on to false doctrines. If so they should be shown compassion and any discussion should be conducted in love. I do think that churches should be on guard against false doctrine.

 

[Luke2427]

Unless charismatics reject that Jesus was a historical person, or anything that would negate the plan of salvation through Him, I fail to see how being charismatic would make one lost?

Even the people I used to know who spoke out against catholicism more passionately than I'd care to to believed that some truly saved people were caught up in that, however misguided they may be--the plan of salvation's main requirement is belief in Jesus, after all.

Whether or not there are many saved people in the movement is not the issue.

The issue is whether or not they are dangerous. The answer to that is a solid- YES!

It is a matter of authority. Do we follow the Bible alone or do we follow ecstatic experiences we falsely attribute to the Holy Spirit.

Do we model sanity or do we model chaos for a world that so desperately needs to be led to sanity?

Are we going to make decision based on godly wisdom or based on notions and goose bumps and other such nonsense that we falsely attribute to the Holy Spirit.

Are we going to champion the biblically informed mind or the fickle emotions?

I do not think there is a bigger issue in all of Christianity today. This is probably the most important fight that presents itself today.

 

[Amy.G]

If someone believes in speaking in tongues or other expressive worship or believe in bringing about God's Kingdom on earth they are in error but not necessarily lost. How are their souls at stake?

Souls are stake because false teachers are able to draw in the weak and unstable. False teachers work for Satan, not God and their false teachings have a profound effect on the church as a whole, not just one misled person. Satan's desire is to destroy the church and he will try to do it from within.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Guess I'm just not a big fan of the whole idea of waging some kind of holy war against other Christians/denominations. ._.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be taught better, just...IDK..take care the battle is against spiritual forces rather than against people? It just annoys me how some go about this kind of thing, thinking they have to oust it by force somehow. IDK. They're still our brothers and sisters in Christ, and I'd prefer to treat them with a little more respect. The same way I'd want to be treated if the tables were turned.

 

[Luke2427]

Guess I'm just not a big fan of the whole idea of waging some kind of holy war against other Christians/denominations. ._.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be taught better, just...IDK..take care the battle is against spiritual forces rather than against people? It just annoys me how some go about this kind of thing, thinking they have to oust it by force somehow. IDK. They're still our brothers and sisters in Christ, and I'd prefer to treat them with a little more respect.

I don't think anybody is advocating attacking individual persons.

But if we are right that this is a very serious issue, then you don't want to weaken the hands of those who battle against error that is leading the church into darkness, do you?

The language of the Bible about how to approach such error is very clear.

II Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I guess my idea of approach is just different. I tend to be more lenient towards alternate-sort beliefs, even if I know I disagree with them. Why? Because people have a right to freedom of religion.
My ideas are more along the lines of, y'know, teaching sound doctrine and praying for it to spread, rather than actively engaging other teachings of theology. Not that it shouldn't be addressed--in fact I encourage the idea of addressing the subject in books and debate. Just...IDK.

How about this, it might be an easier way to explain what I mean: if I wouldn't want something being said or done to me in the name of my theology being dangerous, then I wouldn't do the same to others.
Sound doctrine is important, but if it isn't ultimately done in love then it's meaningless.

 

[Luke2427]

I guess my idea of approach is just different. I tend to be more lenient towards alternate-sort beliefs, even if I know I disagree with them. Why? Because people have a right to freedom of religion.
My ideas are more along the lines of, y'know, teaching sound doctrine and praying for it to spread, rather than actively engaging other teachings of theology. Not that it shouldn't be addressed--in fact I encourage the idea of addressing the subject in books and debate. Just...IDK.

How about this, it might be an easier way to explain what I mean: if I wouldn't want something being said or done to me in the name of my theology being dangerous, then I wouldn't do the same to others.
Sound doctrine is important, but if it isn't ultimately done in love then it's meaningless.

But that is a subjective standard. What you would want people to say about you and what you believe is not the same as what I would want said about the same things for me.

I call Islam a false religion sending millions of people to perdition every year. Now, I am not fond of someone saying the same thing about what I believe to me. HOWEVER, it is still my duty, REGARDLESS of whether or not I want the same things said about me, to SAY IT ABOUT THEM.

What we want said of us cannot be the standard by which we jusdge what we say about others.

Remember, these are not our enemies, these ideas and doctrines- they are God's enemies. And we are his ambassadors charged to call these things what they are in his stead.

Jesus did not mince words. We represent him. We do not speak for ourselves. And winning people over is not always the goal. Defeating error so that it cannot lead others astray in the future is sometimes the goal. That means that we may not win many people over in this generation from a false movement. But if we can obliterate the ideals upon which the movement was built, we are saving countless thousands in the future.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I see it moreso as God's place than mine, I guess. He will divide the wheat from the tares when the time comes.

I'm not saying not to call a spade a spade. I'm saying they're going to exist whether or not we like it and as much as I might disagree I don't mind letting them have their space, too.

My main complaint here was that some of the methods suggested in the poll seem pretty rude to me.