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An Immigration Story

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Gina B

Active Member
No excscentric, I was pointing out the flaws in trying to argue that doing something illegal automatically classifies that person as "bad" and not being able to get past the word.
People are slamming the door on logic shut because the family we're discussing was here illegally, so people are saying "illegal means they are criminal, end of discussion, if things are so bad where they're from, they should stay and change things." I am attempting to refute that by pointing out that they are asking them to exchange one "illegal" act with another, which is silly, if they really think it's always terrible to break a law.
I don't think it is always terrible to break a law. Sometimes it is needed or at least understandable and at times, it may be flat out wrong, but still may be more pitiable in one case than another.
 
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Gina B

Active Member
I already responded to that up above - I wasn't agreeing.

We're in a free country where we're not getting shot at and facing violence or being thrown in prison for our thoughts and protests (well, not nearly as much as in other places) but what have we been able to change in this country that is wrong?

We can't even change ObamaCare. LOL Can't stop the laws from saying gender confused kids can come and use the same bathrooms in schools as the other kids. Yet you expect nice, caring people with children to change whole systems of government and make life better for their children, when we live in a free country and can't even stop stupid?
Really?
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ah, got it, if we want them to stay home they have to break their law because their law is unjust and that is the same, as if they come here and break the law, then automatically our immigration laws are unjust - if we are going to be consistent.

Staying home and fighting unjust laws is different than coming to our country and breaking - in my book - just laws. We are one of the most allowing countries I know of but there are right ways and wrong ways to enter it.

Just because we have people here illegally declaring our laws unjust does not make them unjust.
 
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Gina B

Active Member
No, I have never said our immigration laws as a whole are unjust.

I, as an American citizen, believe that there should be situational exceptions for those who break the laws. Not every country, not every city, not every family is the same and should not be treated the same.

Just as not every thief is the same. For example, someone who steals bread to feed their neighbor's hungry child after other efforts to feed the child have failed, is a thief. Someone who steals money from a bank to buy him/herself the latest pair of designer jeans because they find it easier than working for them is a thief. Both have stolen, but their situations and reasons are drastically different and I do not feel both should be treated the same.

You will come across the same situations when dealing with illegal immigrants. You cannot spit out "they're all criminals" judgment and render the same verdict for each one. There's no sense in that and no humanity. Of all the religions in the world, it strikes me as the least Christian approach. I don't understand that mindset, when one takes that hardline approach and refuses to consider the circumstances. It's not the New Testament example of cautious, wise, but loving. It's the old Testament "no exceptions," incompleted love way of living, and that's not how we're supposed to be now, is it?
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaaaa got it, illegal is not always illegal even though all are illegal because they are here illegally. Send them all home and let them come in the front door.

Got your thinking, it is called situational ethics .. your situational exceptions.

My original thought is that the education most kids get here if going to their original countries would raise up the same. I have yet to hear any illegals say they want to go home they are desirous of all that is here.

At any rate none of them are viewed for their situation in Washington they are viewed as more democratic voters and more tax money coming in. That is why this discussion is mute. No matter how they got here or their situation .. they are wanted for political benefit.
 
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Gina B

Active Member
You're getting a bit closer.

No, illegal is still illegal and no, you don't send them ALL home and let them all back in.

But yes on situational ethics, the concept of Christian love. I am quite surprised to see it so readily rejected on this board as a "liberal" concept, when it was borne out of Christianity.

I'm confused by that. Please explain.
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"No, illegal is still illegal and no, you don't send them ALL home and let them all back in."

Oh ok that works for me but where did all your love go? Or did you mean leave them all here?

"But yes on situational ethics, the concept of Christian love. I am quite surprised to see it so readily rejected on this board as a "liberal" concept, when it was borne out of Christianity.

"I'm confused by that. Please explain."

Last I knew it came out of liberal "christianity" like a lot of other false doctrine but that probably belongs in another forum.

__________________
 
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Gina B

Active Member
Love for sin is never something I claimed. When someone commits murder, rape, etc., I do not say to let them go without punishment and bring them back and never have.

Is there anyone that wants to comment on the story I originally posted, and only on that story? I did have that in mind when I posted it. :wavey:

As for situational ethics and origins, a simple internet search will answer that question for you if you want a human point of view. If you want a Christian one, try looking at Jesus when he answered as to why he didn't see it as a big deal to prepare food on the Sabbath or how he got people to put down their stones. Guess he was quite the liberal in his time.
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sorry , I joined in on the derail. As to the story , I doubt we have enough info to make to much a determination. Way to many questions.

Why the wife and not the husband at first?
Why the husband now?
Why would a husband not go home with his wife?
Was there an offer to pay for the kids to go with dad?
Why do they mention the kids were here ok?
Why are they in foster homes..they seem they might have been able to take care of themselves?
Are there asylum papers in the works?
If not then there must not be danger at home.
How long have they been here?

Just asking questions .. there may be good answers to all.

And since you reintroduced situational ethics to the discussion .. God gave ten commandments not ten suggestions and in my opinion SI does not come from the Lord but again that is for another section :)
 
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thisnumbersdisconnected

New Member
Gina B said:
No excscentric, I was pointing out the flaws in trying to argue that doing something illegal automatically classifies that person as "bad" and not being able to get past the word.
Click to expand...
No one said he is "bad" but he did break the law. There are literally thousands of "good" men and women in prison or on probation or parole because, despite being good, they broke the law. These are the consequences. Should we let them out of prison, or not make them responsible for their actions while on probation or parole, simply because we can point to how "nice, kind, and family oriented" they are? If you're going to make the exception logical for immigrants, you have to apply it across the board. Otherwise, you are setting up a system of special treatment for people who have seen fit to break the law.

Of course, the answer to the above question is "No." So you can't ignore the law for the illegal immigrant, either, regardless of how "good" a person he/she is.

What is Jesus going to say about their "goodness" if they haven't given their life and faith over to Him in this life?
 
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JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gina B said:
As for situational ethics and origins, a simple internet search will answer that question for you if you want a human point of view. If you want a Christian one, try looking at Jesus when he answered as to why he didn't see it as a big deal to prepare food on the Sabbath or how he got people to put down their stones. Guess he was quite the liberal in his time.
Click to expand...

While that makes for a great appeal to emotion, neither one of those has anything to do with what we're talking about.
 
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thisnumbersdisconnected

New Member
Gina B said:
As for situational ethics and origins, a simple internet search will answer that question for you if you want a human point of view. If you want a Christian one, try looking at Jesus when he answered as to why he didn't see it as a big deal to prepare food on the Sabbath or how he got people to put down their stones. Guess he was quite the liberal in his time.
Click to expand...

JohnDeereFan said:
While that makes for a great appeal to emotion, neither one of those has anything to do with what we're talking about.
Click to expand...
And certainly doesn't prove Jesus approved of or taught "situational ethics" which is essentially an oxymoron.

Either you're ethical, or you're not. Choosing to be ethical according to the situation means you aren't ethical at all, except when it suits your own desires, you own will.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well let's just let them all in unfettered and pay no attention to it.


Nevermind this is exactly how Rome fell.
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
Well let's just let them all in unfettered and pay no attention to it.


Nevermind this is exactly how Rome fell.
Click to expand...

Ah, don't sweat the details! We are being conquered with not a sword swung or shot fired - well except along the boarder where citizens are unsafe due to their property being overrun by illegals.
 
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exscentric

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ronald Soza (the son) Just some random things I found with google.

From: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Pompano-Beach-Children-Face-Fathers-Deportation-145382715.html

"Her father, Ronald Soza, was arrested Wednesday in Broward for driving without a valid license. Officers turned him over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials because he is an illegal immigrant who was issued a deportation order in 2011 by The Department of Justice."
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One article mentions two younger kids and another two teens, and we have a pic of four???
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from: http://archives.nbclearn.com/portal/site/k-12/flatview?cuecard=44413

"He says three weeks ago he had to out run agents that came to his house to arrest and deport him." (That would be resisting arrest I think.)
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Interesting the kids are labeled "legal residents" rather than citizen????
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From: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-5093820.html

Obama is being sued: "They are suing President Barack Obama, asking a court to halt the deportations of their parents until Congress overhauls U.S. immigration laws."
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thisnumbersdisconnected

New Member
exscentric said:
Interesting the kids are labeled "legal residents" rather than citizen????
Click to expand...
Children are considered legal, even when their parents are illegal, until age 16. Then they have to make formal application for citizenship, on their birthday, not even 24 hours later. Few do, but I believe the one son who is over 16 did so. Might be wrong about that, though.
 
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