evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I guess it wasn't so much that I tried to get God to talk to me directly--just that that's the way it happened.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Sarah Young's Jesus Calling
- Thread starter webdog
- Start date
Hmmm...I guess it wasn't so much that I tried to get God to talk to me directly--just that that's the way it happened.
We seem to be a generation, especially in America, that seeks 'furhter insight" of the Lord, Bible not enough, so we get junk like the Shack, a Course in miracles, God calling, life after death stories that violate bible etc!
just strikes me as being like 'personally journaling" that was hot in pentscostal circles yeras ago, that we would be quiet and record 'what the Spriit" spoke to us to have!
I was very convicted to NOT close my eyes, to mediate and still myself to hear the 'voice of God"
I can trust when paul and peter wrote that jesus spoke to them, but this writer? not so much!
preacher4truth
Active Member
You're exactly correct. Then these types find ways to justify this departure from the sufficiency of Scripture.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
This is a serious allegation against both myself, and against Young. I'm assuming you can back up with examples.
I'd like to see them.
If you can't produce anything from Young that proves this, then you certainly can't produce anything I've posted as evidence against me. I await your posting.
They've already been shown. The Bible wasn't enough. She wanted more so she sought out God to speak to her OUTSIDE of Scripture. Nuff said.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
And it is your contention that God doesn't speak to anyone directly, outside of Scripture?
Let me ask you, Ann ... Has God ever spoken to you? I don't mean through Scripture. I mean, has God ever spoken to you?
As I've already said, she specifically stated that if the reader found anything in her devotional that didn't line up with Scripture, they should reject the devotional, besides making clear she wasn't trying to claim "divine inspiration" in her writings. Those are her words, expressing what she believes God wanted her to know at any particular time. My personal feelings aside, I'd defy anyone to deny that God speaks to individuals during the prayer time. I'd really like to see someone say that doesn't happen.
How about an informal poll? If you have posted on this thread, tell us whether you've actually picked up a copy of "Jesus Calling", read through a few pages, and formed an opinion?
And if you haven't done that, tell us why you are able to form an opinion? One way or the other?
Last edited by a moderator:
If He has spoken to me, it is to ME. It is not to be written down, in the first person and published to make money. She said the book is not inerrant - then the one who spoke to her is not God. God is inerrant.
Meditation, and "emptying the mind," seeing "special revelation" and such are not all bad nor peculiar to "new ageism."
I have heard most often a preacher state, "The Lord told me (directed me, impressed upon me, ...) ..."
"Contemplative prayer" is exactly the type of prayer a believer should engage, as one meditates and seeks God while emptying themselves of the "I" factor.
Have some never "heard from God?"
Seriously.
I realize that God speaks "Through his word," however have believers never heard directly from God sense the cannon?
How do you suppose we should align then with the cannon of Scriptures?
Did those not hear directly from God on what to include and not?
Or, are we to rely merely that the Scriptures are complete as they were handed to us, because they were handed to us by those whom it was also handed, and so forth resulting tradition becoming truth - it has "always been" thinking.
Frankly, I have personally had more than one communication relationship with God. Often, only the "impulse" of His love, the chance engagement with the "stranger," the sudden interruption by a necessary, the words that bring a verse to mind of warning or agreement, the sense of peace in a troubled time, the actual inner voice (not my own), ...
How in this world is the Holy Spirit supposed to teach when folks don't know how or even desire to listen!
Why not publish them.
Does not the preacher who is "given a message from God" preach it?
Just because it is in first person doesn't diminish the same thinking found in a statement some "spiritual authority" may state as, "The Lord told me..."
Folks, lest you think I am supporting this book, I am not.
I am showing the inconsistency of the arguments presented in this thread.
It seems to me that what REALLY needs to be taught in the assembly is discernment.
This thread shows a need for folks to use discernment in sifting all through the Scriptures to gather what is gold and trash the rest.
So shall I write a book to infertile women saying "You will have a child but it will be mine."? Maybe I should do that and make some moolah. Since it seems women need to hear from God from other people, it should be a best seller too.
Why does the wording of this day (I think it was April 21st but I can't remember and I closed the window) creep me out? It's not quite what it's said but how it's said. And what's with the capitalizations???????
Let Me control your mind. The mind is the most restless, unruly part of mankind. Long after you have learned the discipline of holding your tongue, your thoughts defy your will and set themselves up against Me. Man is the pinnacle of My creation, and the human mind is wondrously complex. I risked all by granting you freedom to think for yourself. This is godlike privilege, forever setting you apart from animals and robots. I made you in My image, precariously close to deity.
Though My blood has fully redeemed you, your mind is the last bastion of rebellion. Open yourself to My radiant Presence, letting My Light permeate your thinking. When My Spirit is controlling your mind, you are filled with Life and Peace.
Let Me control your mind. The mind is the most restless, unruly part of mankind. Long after you have learned the discipline of holding your tongue, your thoughts defy your will and set themselves up against Me. Man is the pinnacle of My creation, and the human mind is wondrously complex. I risked all by granting you freedom to think for yourself. This is godlike privilege, forever setting you apart from animals and robots. I made you in My image, precariously close to deity.
Though My blood has fully redeemed you, your mind is the last bastion of rebellion. Open yourself to My radiant Presence, letting My Light permeate your thinking. When My Spirit is controlling your mind, you are filled with Life and Peace.
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
Personally it just looks to me like the devotionals come from thoughts and talks with God based on her own Bible study. It reminds me of a time when I was closer to God and could talk to and hear from Him like that every time I studied my Bible, really.
I haven't really seen anything that stuck out as contrary to scripture to me, and she gives several verses each time to support the entries.
I've been reading the devotional ever since it was given to me this summer and I find it's often relevant to my life. It reminds me of the importance of spending time with God, something I personally struggle with as I keep getting distracted by other things.
But if you decide it isn't for you....well, it isn't. And that's good that you have discernment, even if I disagree somewhat.
Your minds seem to be thoroughly made up and there's not much else for me to say, so I'm going to bow out of this thread unless someone talks to me directly or something.
God bless.
I haven't really seen anything that stuck out as contrary to scripture to me, and she gives several verses each time to support the entries.
I've been reading the devotional ever since it was given to me this summer and I find it's often relevant to my life. It reminds me of the importance of spending time with God, something I personally struggle with as I keep getting distracted by other things.
But if you decide it isn't for you....well, it isn't. And that's good that you have discernment, even if I disagree somewhat.
Your minds seem to be thoroughly made up and there's not much else for me to say, so I'm going to bow out of this thread unless someone talks to me directly or something.
God bless.
Last edited by a moderator:
Having had family members involved in new age, I couldn't disagree more unless I added the occult to that.
I have heard the same thing, but it doesn't make it factual.
That is not contemplative prayer as I am describing it. Google that phrase with Beth Moore, Francis Chan and John Piper
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Yes she did. How is that a bad personal comment from the author? But you've read more into that statement than is there, probably because others have done so, and while you haven't read Young, you've read them.
Again, I've got no dog in this fight, or pony in this race, or whatever you want to say. But I really, really get tired of good Christian people repeating what others have said without knowing if those statements are really true or not. I don't even particularly like the way Young wrote the book -- as I said earlier, she seems to romanticize how He speaks to her. It's not my cup of tea.
I noticed none of you cared to volunteer that you've actually picked up the book and read even just a few pages, as I have. That's intellectual dishonesty. You're making comments on a book you haven't even looked at, so how can you possibly know the "truth" of what you have written in derision of Mrs. Young's work?
Now, Ann, I have to take you to task in particular, because you have posted what purport to be quotes from Mrs. Young. She's only given two interviews, both email Q&As, because she has Lyme disease and numerous other health problems that prevent her from leaving the house -- hence no book tours, signings, lectures, etc. -- or expending energy over prolonged periods. I've carefully reviewed what she said in those interviews. I'm sorry, but nothing you posted appears in those interviews. So what are we to think, then?
One misnomer that has been repeated over and over and over again that is simply untrue: "Sarah Young said Jesus spoke to her." Well guess, what, folks? SHE NEVER SAID THAT!! Lots of people have tried to reinterpret her words to make it appear she has said that, but Sarah Young has never said that the words in the devotional are Jesus' words.
Here is what she told CBN in one of those email Q&A interviews: "Let me begin with some cautions. It's essential to remember that the Bible is the only infallible record of God's speaking. Always subordinate your personal listening to absolute biblical truth. If something you 'hear' is inconsistent with biblical teaching, don't write it down–it's not from God. New Christians, especially, need to be cautious about listening to God in this way. I had been a Christian for 20 years before I began this practice. On the other hand, believers are instructed to 'Be still and know that I am God' (Psalm 46:10). I believe there is immense value in learning to wait quietly in God's Presence. For me, the main benefit has been coming to know God intimately, rather than simply knowing about Him. This has increased my love for Him, my trust in Him and His unfailing love (Psalm 13:5), and my awareness of His Presence with me always (Matthew 28:20)."
Sarah Young has written down what she believes God said to her. She actually got the idea from a book written by two women who preferred to remain anonymous -- maybe they expected the same ignoble reaction of their peers as Young has suffered -- titled "God Calling" from the 1930s. She wondered if she could "be still" and hear God speak to her as those two women did.
It might not be a bad idea of we all tried that.
Now I'm done here. The sanctimony among the brothers and sisters is a bit thick.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ann did post a link to it on google books. I read quite a few pages. Strange that Jesus only has adoring things to say to her when He was quite frank with His inner 12. The book reads like something from Osteen.
Can someone tell me what is with the Presence?!?! When is God referred to anything like that in the Bible.
Young is also on record as saying she knows the Bible is all we need yet she yearned for more. If the Bible is sufficient according to her and Paul, what else is there to yearn for?
Can someone tell me what is with the Presence?!?! When is God referred to anything like that in the Bible.
Young is also on record as saying she knows the Bible is all we need yet she yearned for more. If the Bible is sufficient according to her and Paul, what else is there to yearn for?
Trinity Hymnal #345 (used by some Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists):
"Here from the world we turn, Jesus to seek;
Here may his loving voice tenderly speak!
Jesus, our dearest Friend, while at thy feet we bend,
O let thy smile descend! 'Tis thee we seek.
Come, Holy Comforter, Presence Divine,
Now in our longing hearts graciously shine;
O for thy mighty pow'r! O for a blessed show'r,
Filling this hallowed hour with joy divine!"
"Here from the world we turn, Jesus to seek;
Here may his loving voice tenderly speak!
Jesus, our dearest Friend, while at thy feet we bend,
O let thy smile descend! 'Tis thee we seek.
Come, Holy Comforter, Presence Divine,
Now in our longing hearts graciously shine;
O for thy mighty pow'r! O for a blessed show'r,
Filling this hallowed hour with joy divine!"
You are WISE to be concerned?!
It is good that you are cautious...the emergement church is all around us, and while it walks like the church; talks like the church; and, looks like the church: it ain't neccessarily the church according to the Biblical World View.
Here are some things to look for when it comes to signs of the new age/emergent church :
*Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority as the basis for the Christian faith.
*The centrality of the gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by humanistic methods promoting church growth and a social gospel.
*More and more emphasis is being placed on building the kingdom of God now and less and less on the warnings of Scripture about the imminent return of Jesus Christ and a coming judgment in the future.
*The teaching that Jesus Christ will rule and reign in a literal millennial period is considered unbiblical and heretical.
*The teaching that the church has taken the place of Israel and Israel has no prophetic significance is often embraced.
*The teaching that the Book of Revelation does not refer to the future, but instead has been already fulfilled in the past
*An experiential mystical form of Christianity begins to be promoted as a method to reach the postmodern generation.
*Ideas are promoted teaching that Christianity needs to be reinvented in order to provide meaning for this generation.
*The pastor may implement an idea called “ancient-future” or “vintage Christianity” claiming that in order to take the church forward, we need to go back in church history and find out what experiences were effective to get people to embrace Christianity.
*While the authority of the Word of God is undermined, images and sensual experiences are promoted as the key to experiencing and knowing God.
*These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy, labyrinths, prayer stations, contemplative prayer, experiencing the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist.
*There seems to be a strong emphasis on ecumenism indicating that a bridge is being established that leads in the direction of unity with the Roman Catholic Church.
*Some evangelical Protestant leaders are saying that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “church fathers” saying that communion is more than a symbol and that Jesus actually becomes present in the wafer at communion.
*There will be a growing trend towards an ecumenical unity for the cause of world peace claiming the validity of other religions and that there are many ways to God.
*Members of churches who question or resist the new changes that the pastor is implementing are reprimanded and usually asked to leave.
Thus, this purpose-driven view of establishing global utopia may be a plan, but it is “driven” by humanistic reasoning and not led by the Holy Spirit. While it is of course good to do good unto others, all the goodness that we can do will not be good enough. Pastors and church leaders who get involved in such man-driven programs can usually be identified by certain characteristics:
*Sound biblical doctrine is dangerous and divisive, and the experiential (i.e.,mystical) is given a greater role than doctrine.
*Bible prophecy is no longer taught and is considered a waste of time
Israel becomes less and less important and has no biblical significance
*Eventually the promises for Israel are applied to the church and not Israel (Replacement Theology).
*Bible study is replaced by studying someone’s book and his methods
*Church health is evaluated on the quantity of people who attend.
The truth of God’s Word becomes less and less important
*God’s Word, especially concepts like hell, sin and repentance, is eventually downplayed so the unbeliever is not offended.
All small print info above borrowed from "How to Know When the Emerging Church
Shows Signs of Emerging in Your Church" - http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c54_pf.shtml
It is good that you are cautious...the emergement church is all around us, and while it walks like the church; talks like the church; and, looks like the church: it ain't neccessarily the church according to the Biblical World View.
Here are some things to look for when it comes to signs of the new age/emergent church :
*Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority as the basis for the Christian faith.
*The centrality of the gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by humanistic methods promoting church growth and a social gospel.
*More and more emphasis is being placed on building the kingdom of God now and less and less on the warnings of Scripture about the imminent return of Jesus Christ and a coming judgment in the future.
*The teaching that Jesus Christ will rule and reign in a literal millennial period is considered unbiblical and heretical.
*The teaching that the church has taken the place of Israel and Israel has no prophetic significance is often embraced.
*The teaching that the Book of Revelation does not refer to the future, but instead has been already fulfilled in the past
*An experiential mystical form of Christianity begins to be promoted as a method to reach the postmodern generation.
*Ideas are promoted teaching that Christianity needs to be reinvented in order to provide meaning for this generation.
*The pastor may implement an idea called “ancient-future” or “vintage Christianity” claiming that in order to take the church forward, we need to go back in church history and find out what experiences were effective to get people to embrace Christianity.
*While the authority of the Word of God is undermined, images and sensual experiences are promoted as the key to experiencing and knowing God.
*These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy, labyrinths, prayer stations, contemplative prayer, experiencing the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist.
*There seems to be a strong emphasis on ecumenism indicating that a bridge is being established that leads in the direction of unity with the Roman Catholic Church.
*Some evangelical Protestant leaders are saying that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “church fathers” saying that communion is more than a symbol and that Jesus actually becomes present in the wafer at communion.
*There will be a growing trend towards an ecumenical unity for the cause of world peace claiming the validity of other religions and that there are many ways to God.
*Members of churches who question or resist the new changes that the pastor is implementing are reprimanded and usually asked to leave.
Thus, this purpose-driven view of establishing global utopia may be a plan, but it is “driven” by humanistic reasoning and not led by the Holy Spirit. While it is of course good to do good unto others, all the goodness that we can do will not be good enough. Pastors and church leaders who get involved in such man-driven programs can usually be identified by certain characteristics:
*Sound biblical doctrine is dangerous and divisive, and the experiential (i.e.,mystical) is given a greater role than doctrine.
*Bible prophecy is no longer taught and is considered a waste of time
Israel becomes less and less important and has no biblical significance
*Eventually the promises for Israel are applied to the church and not Israel (Replacement Theology).
*Bible study is replaced by studying someone’s book and his methods
*Church health is evaluated on the quantity of people who attend.
The truth of God’s Word becomes less and less important
*God’s Word, especially concepts like hell, sin and repentance, is eventually downplayed so the unbeliever is not offended.
All small print info above borrowed from "How to Know When the Emerging Church
Shows Signs of Emerging in Your Church" - http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c54_pf.shtml
It is not a bad comment at all. But if the book is not inerrant and yet she says that these are the words of Jesus, that means Jesus was errant in what He said to her.
Who said I haven't read her? I haven't read the book in it's entirety because honestly, I have a large list of worthwhile books to read and I'd rather concentrate on those than garbage. But I've read actually quite a bit of the book - at least 5 months' worth of entries. The entire time, I was extremely uncomfortable in my spirit with what I wrote.
That I'm posting directly from the printed book.
In the introduction, she says:
"I had been writing in prayer journals for years, but that was a one-way communication: I did all the talking. I knew that God communicated with me through the Bible but I yearned for more. Increasingly, I wanted to hear what God had to say to me personally on a given day. I decided to listen to God with pen in hand, writing down whatever I believed He was saying. I felt awkward the first time I tried this, but I received a message. It was short, biblical and appropriate. It addressed topics that were current in my life: trust, fear and closeness to God. I responded by writing in my prayer journal.
My journaling had changed from monologue to dialogue. Soon messages began to flow more freely, and I bought a special notebook to record these words. This new way of communicating with God became the high point of my day. I knew these writings were not inspired as Scripture is, but they were helping me grow closer to God. "
So what she writes down is messages from God.
Yeah - the God Calling book is also dangerous, in my opinion and based in false teachings.