Samuel Rutherford and the sinner's warrant to call on Christ

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, Paul did not believe he was saved, Paul told him to believe on the Lord Jesus and thou "shalt be" (future tense) saved.

If it comes to you or Paul, I will believe Paul.

Paul just answered him thus clarifying the situation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:thumbs:

:laugh: thats right....dont ask questions :laugh::laugh:

Thats just what the Roman Catholics told me......actually told Luther, Hus, Calvin also.

 

[Winman]

Paul just answered him thus clarifying the situation.

Yes, Paul did answer and clarify the situation, he told the man that he needed to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THEN he would be saved.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, Paul did answer and clarify the situation, he told the man that he needed to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THEN he would be saved.

So what.... thats a rhetorical. Only God could have put that thought into the mans mind thus providing the saving grace prior to any dialog with Paul......thus he was already on his way & it also proves he was one of the elect. Paul was there to add support & comfort. thats a perfect conversion.

Look at Pauls own conversion, a classic. The guy had to be physically knocked off his horse & blinded before he got it. He wasnt running after Jesus to believe, he was there to persecute and to kill.

In short winman, you need to provide room for the Holy Spirit to work in different situations.....neither you or your so called Calvinistic opponents seem to get that.....both groups want to pidgenhole God into certain behavior. You are more like Iconoclast and Rippon than you are willing to admit.

But the central theme to this whole thread is " that Jesus Christ is able to save all who come to God through HIM in faith!" THATS THE FOCUS..... THATS THE TAKEAWAY.

 

[Iconoclast]

Earth, Wind & Fire

:laugh: thats right....dont ask questions :laugh::laugh:

Thats just what the Roman Catholics told me......actually told Luther, Hus, Calvin also.

Most understand it is one thing to ask a question about something in the bible,

it is quite another thing to question God Himself....His Motives, His Purpose,
His election,His judgements.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Earth, Wind & Fire



Most understand it is one thing to ask a question about something in the bible,

it is quite another thing to question God Himself....His Motives, His Purpose,
His election,His judgements.

So Iconoclastic...you are so certain that every bit of the Calvinist doctrine is truth? Your answer is probably yes correct? Funny though that there are so many on here and in the world at large who would beg to differ with you....but fear not I test everything through scripture and I consult regurally with the holy spirit....but God has given me a mind to use to think and ask questions and process the answer's and I fully intend on using it...but do not fear, I have no intentions of going haywire.

 

[Winman]

So what.... thats a rhetorical. Only God could have put that thought into the mans mind thus providing the saving grace prior to any dialog with Paul......thus he was already on his way & it also proves he was one of the elect. Paul was there to add support & comfort. thats a perfect conversion.

I agree 100% that the Holy Spirit influenced this man. He no doubt must have heard about Paul and that he was placed in prison for teaching a doctrine about God. The earthquake obviously was a big influence on him as well. But he was not saved, he was not regenerated, or else Paul would not have needed to tell him to believe to be SAVED.

Look at Pauls own conversion, a classic. The guy had to be physically knocked off his horse & blinded before he got it. He wasnt running after Jesus to believe, he was there to persecute and to kill.

Paul is not the typical conversion. How many people saw and heard Jesus when they got saved? I know I didn't. Paul was a special person chosen especially to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.

And the fact is, Paul could have refused to be saved. He told Agrippa that he was "obedient" to the vision which implies that he could have refused and rejected Christ. He didn't say he was irresistibly compelled to believe.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

In short winman, you need to provide room for the Holy Spirit to work in different situations.....neither you or your so called Calvinistic opponents seem to get that.....both groups want to pidgenhole God into certain behavior. You are more like Iconoclast and Rippon than you are willing to admit.

But the central theme to this whole thread is " that Jesus Christ is able to save all who come to God through HIM in faith!" THATS THE FOCUS..... THATS THE TAKEAWAY.

And you need to understand the scriptures for what they say, not what you DESIRE them to say. The Philipian jailer was not saved, he was not regenerated when he burst in and asked how to be saved, otherwise Paul would not have told him to believe to be saved.

Cornelius is another example in Acts. We are directly told he was not saved, yet he was devout, he prayed always, and he did good works that God recognized. He was such a good man that God sent an angel to him to tell him to send for Peter whereby he would hear words and be saved.

Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

We also know that Cornelius did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter preached the gospel to him;

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Cornelius did not have the Holy Spirit, so according to Romans 8:9 he could not have been regenerated, yet he was able to believe in God and do much good.

We also learn that a person does not receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER they believe in verse 17.

Total Inability is false doctrine and utterly refuted by both the Philipian jailer and Cornelius in scripture.

Of course, if you want to ignore scripture and simply believe what you desire...

 

[Iconoclast]

Benjamin


Hello Benjamin.....Good Post....:thumbsup:Thank you for the effort and standing your ground.

According to you it has never been done,

Correct...it has never been done and it will never be done.

but we both know that is not true.

We both know many has sought to undermine truth,but truth stands the test of time.

Read and learn from history that I am not alone in my opinion of about the detrimental effects of your doctrines my friend:

Many Give Wesley much credit....more for his desire to win souls than for his doctrinal content. I am glad I am not his judge.
With many historical persons we do not get to hear them or question them directly....but their descendants are among us.

Hopefully he said these foul ideas early on ...and later was given more light and the grace to repent of his emotional rant.

Wesley in regards to the Calvinist Doctrines of Predestination:

and here is some reading for you-

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/wesley.htm

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/wesley/murray.htm

Pay especially close attention to these words Icon as you act as if you've never heard them before. It appears Wesley must have known someone much like you:

I paid close attention to this about 30 yrs ago when I read the whole account.
Even now it is instructive to see the sad lack of ability of Wesley and his unscriptural objections. I am glad it sounds as if he was diligent to serve God with what light he had....so i can be thankful to God for that.
God used him despite his error and weakness....God being sovereign can and does do that.



Yes...Whitfield noticed His error and reponded here;

Wesley said;

Wesley's sermon, entitled "Free Grace," said this: "... the doctrine of predestination is not a doctrine of God ... this doctrine not only tends to destroy Christian holiness, happiness, and good works, but hath also a direct and manifest tendency to overthrow the whole Christian Revelation. ... it is a doctrine full of blasphemy ... I will mention a few of the horrible blasphemies contained in this horrible doctrine. ... this doctrine represents our blessed Lord, 'Jesus Christ the righteous,' 'the only begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and truth,' as an hypocrite, a deceiver of the people, a man void of common sincerity. ... It overturns both his justice, mercy, and truth; yea, it represents the most holy God as worse than the devil, as both more false, more cruel, and more unjust. ... This is the blasphemy clearly contained in the horrible decree of predestination! [emphasis in original -- CA] ... This is the blasphemy for which (however I love the persons who assert it) I abhor the doctrine of predestination ..."

In response to this, Whitefield wrote these words of peace to Wesley: "Reverend and very dear brother, ... I am very apprehensive that our common adversaries will rejoice to see us differing among ourselves. ... And if so, let not the children of God who are mine and your intimate friends, and also advocates for universal redemption, think that doctrine true -- because you preached it up in compliance with a lot given out from God. ... the dear mistaken Mr. Wesley ... I love and honour you for his sake; and when I come to judgment, will thank you before men and angels, for what you have, under God, done for my soul. There, I am persuaded, I shall see dear Mr. Wesley convinced of election and everlasting love. And it often fills me with pleasure to think how I shall behold you casting your crown down at the feet of the Lamb, and as it were filled with a holy blushing for opposing the divine sovereignty in the manner you have done."

Even though I liked that you at least attempted to offer this link from the mistaken Wesley.....I would urge caution to suggest as you have that the God of calvinism is not the biblical God.Wesley will not hold your hand if Indeed you are found in unrepentant denial of the biblical God.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.:love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will remind all of you that the foundation of the free offering of the Bible is not election..it is Christ's promice to save all who come to Him. Rest in that and stop your co ntinuous bickering. We preach Christ Crucified gentlemen and we preach that to all.

 

[Winman]

I will remind all of you that the foundation of the free offering of the Bible is not election..it is Christ's promice to save all who come to Him. Rest in that and stop your co ntinuous bickering. We preach Christ Crucified gentlemen and we preach that to all.

You might preach it to all, but you do not believe it applies to all. It is a half-truth at best, a complete lie at worst.