Featured Response-ability and Total Inability

We have dealt with all these arguments thoroughly before but here we go once again:

The ABLE REPONSE occurred when the total human race acted when Adam acted as the representative of the human race (Rom. 5:12-19). His ABLE response was the response of the totality of human nature. The responsible consequence by the action of the totality of human nature was sin and death and by the very nature of what sin IS, it wrought SEPERATION between the human nature and God which IS death and the law of indwelling sin in fallen human nature. Hence humanity is responsible for its FALLEN NATURE and the universal proof is the universal consequences in generation of every human being whom are characterized by death and sinfound in every offspring of Adam. That fallen nature "IS" by nature at war against God and it IS resistant to God's will. That is not its POTENTIAL but that "IS" what it "IS" by definition, by nature and thus there can be NTHER RESPONSE except by CHANGE OF NATURE and that is the docrtrine of total inability = "neither indeed can be."

The text that this is based upon has no reference to lost people but only to the saved. The pronouns used in 2 Cor. 5:17-20 prove this beyond any reasonable doubt. When Paul referred to the unreconciled world he referred to that world as "their" and "them." When Paul referred to those reconciled to God already in the sense of salvation he used the pronouns "we" and "us." When he spoke to the unreconciled condition of the saved members at Corinth who were unreconciled with EACH OTHER and thus WITH GOD in regard to fellowship he used the pronouns "YE" and "YOU."

Secondly, repentance and faith when being addressed to lost people are found in the IMPERATIVE MODE as a command never as an "appeal."

God's patience is required because all the elect come through fallen Adamic offspring and wrath upon the non-elect would defeat God's redemptive purpose for the elect who come through them and among whom there is an intricate cause and consequential relationship. God takes no pleasure in the disobedience of any human to His revealed will including His elect and He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but it is His revealed will that none continue in sin and none die but that all should obey His revealed will and come to repentance and faith. However, none will honor His revealed will as all will sin, violate His word, all will die and all will perish and justly so as the just consequences of their sins demand, but God has sovereignly decreed to exercise not merely justice to glorify His name, but mercy in choosing a innumerable multitude of sinners to save in spite of their just condemnation for His own glory (Rom. 9:18-24).

He is not willing that any of His elect should perish and thus the longsuffering and patience of God with the non-elect through whom the elect come.

The command of the gospel is that all should repent and believe and whosoever will may come. The invitation is for the willing, not the unwilling, for those burdened and heavy ladened with sin, not those who love their sins, for the hungery and thirsty not for the self-satisfied. The Fallen human nature is INCAPABLE of these responses due to what it IS by nature and thus the Father gave the elect to the Son (Jn. 17:2) to come by faith to him (Jn. 6:37-39) while NEVER DRAWING the non-elect (Jn. 6:64-65) because they were NEVER GIVEN to Son because all who were given do in fact hunger and thirst, are burdened with sin and willing because of God's grace "wrought in them" (Jn. 3:19-21).

There are no means that can enable the fallen nature to willing yeild to God either before or after regenration (Rom. 7:18; 8:7-8). Due to what the fallen nature of mankind 'IS" the only possible way a fallen man will come to Christ is by providing ANOTHER NATURE that is "willing" BY NATURE.

2 Tim. 2:21 refers to all who are already IN GOD"S HOUSEHOLD or family. His purposes and gifts and measures of grace and faith differ from one to another according to the purpose He has for each (Eph. 2:10b; Rom. 12:4,7; etc.).

You probably mean 2 Cor. 3:16 although 2 Cor. 2:14-16 demonstrates God is equally glorified by refusal or repentance to the gospel message.

However, in regard to the text you intended you have simply jerked a text out of context. The ability to turn is not attributed to the person as this veil is UPON THEIR HEART and no man can change his heart or perform internal operation upon His own heart. 2 Cor. 3:3-6 demonstrates this is solely the "power" of God and not of men under the new covenant work of God by the Spirit of God who does the changing (2 Cor. 3:18).

 

You still refuse to deal straightforwardly with the Bibical definition of what "IS" the fallen nature. If you dared to deal with it this debate would be over and your position would be exposed as error.

The Fallen nature "IS" enmity/state of war against God. That is what it IS not what it MAY become! The Fallen nature "IS" resistant to God's revealed will. That is what it "IS" not what it may or may not be or do. Hence, by its very Biblically defined nature it is not only TOTALLY DEPRAVED but does not have and NEVER WILL HAVE any ability to BE anything but what it IS by nature - "neither indeed can be" (total inabiity). There is no salvation for the fallen nature of man - none - zilch - nada here on earth or ever. That is why man must be BORN AGAIN or receive a NEW NATURE that is not at enmity and is subject to the revealed will of God. The fallen nature is only destined to destruction in death of the flesh.

You dare not address my exposition on Romans 8:7 because grammatically and by word definitions that text totally exposes and condemns your whole soteriology.

 

I never suggested or inferred anything different. Human nature had ability in Adam and in Adam the human race was held RESPONSIBLE for becoming SPIRITUALLY DEAD = inability. That fallen nature now in Adam's offspring is irreversably at enmity with God and irreversably resistant to the revealed will of God (repent and believe) and thus incapable - "neither indeed can be" forever. That is precisely why men MUST be BORN AGAIN, provided a NEW NATURE, a DIFFERENT NATURE that is the CREATED product of God.

 

No my system does not confound the use of means but they are equally elected by God as is the persons chosen to salvation.

9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The elect of God. He is not willing that any of those given to the Son should fail to come to Christ in repentance and faith:

Jn. 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


Jn. 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Peter goes on to cleary state that the Longsuffering of God results in salvation, the kind of salvation that those like you regard too "hard" and so you wrest the scripture.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

God "works all things" by providential design to bring the elect to salvation including the persons, problems, instrumental means of conveying the gospel, as nothing occurs by accident when a person is saved. God can use our hatred, our jealously, our sins, our habits, that of others in bringing about the event in time and space of our salvation. He used Paul's hatred of Christianity to bring him into constant contact with the witness of the gospel by the Christians he persecuted. Your objection is lacking careful consideration.

The KJV says "IS" salvation but "MEANS" salvation is as good. Note Peter does not say "POTENTIALLY MEANS" or "POTENTIALLY IS" salvation. In other words it is EFFECTUAL to the salvation of "US-WARD" the elect as it is expressly God's will that NONE of those given to Christ for eternal life by the Father be lost. Hence, God's patience and longsuffering in holding back his wrath upon the world is only because there are more given to the Son to yet save and thus it "MEANS SALVATION" for sure. Only when "the fullness of the gentile" elect come in will God turn back to Israel and only when all are saved will His vengeance be poured out. So, his longsuffering in holding back wrath "MEANS SALVATION" of more elect and is thus toward "US-WARD."

Longsuffering "MEANS SALVATION" of the kind that you are wrestling with and perverting God's Word to deny as Peter goes on to say.

 

Scripture Quoted Is From The NIV

You neglected verses 15 and 16:

"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation,just as our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters,speaking of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures,to their own destruction."

 

Scripture Cited Is From The NIV

And let's not forget the concluding verse of chapter 3:

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever! Amen."

 

Regeneration is not possible without the "substance" of faith which is the hope founded upon the promise of the gospel. The elect must have the gospel communicated to his PHYSICAL senses when God empowers it as a creative word. Hence, physical means are used to convey it to that point.

Second, the fallen nature is capable of "worldly sorrow" - 2 Cor. 7:10. That is the conscience can be trained, instructed in righteousness and inflict misery upon the lost man. Providential circumstances can be used to inflict misery upon the lost man. Jealously, hatred, oppression, anger, etc., can be used by God to inflict misery and reactions upon the lost man and thus bring him circumstantially to the precise point where He is regenerated. The transition point between worldly and "godly sorrow" which is always effectual to salvation is the CREATIVE EMPOWERMENT of God's Spirit.

Again, more proof that God's elect are in view. He is speaking to the saved elect to comfort them in regard to why Christ is wating to come and end their suffering and tribulation by wicked men. Longsuffering "MEANS SALVATION" for all of God's elect according to the "hard" doctrine of election taught by Paul that you and others mishandle, pervert and repudiate by pure hatred of His word.

I'm sure that won't confuse anyone at all. [/QUOTE]

 

Well, thank you for the compliment even though you disagree with my statement.

Of course the "means" do not obtain the end, they only bring the individual to the point determined by God! Only regeneration obtains the end - salvation.

 

Excellent points!

Also

"He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him Not" John 1.

"I STAND at the door and KNOCK if anyone hears my voice AND OPENS the door I WILL come in" Rev 3.

"9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Romans 10

And of course the "Whosever will" of Rev 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

God grants to the elect what is needed in order for them to 'freely come" unto jesus and get saved, as by themselves, in sin natures, will continually reject Him and not get saved!

 

Sinners are made spiritual alive again by the work of the Holy spirit, as in their sin natures, can do NOTHING to come back to life!

Until he quickens their herats/minds to receive jesus, they are like statues, thathear the message, but remain steadfast oppossed!