I am not trying to misunderstand you, but how can you ay that my pruior posting was wrong, for was just stating what the Bible says regarding salvation!
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Ten Commandments Keep them or break them?
- Thread starter BobRyan
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I am not trying to misunderstand you, but how can you ay that my pruior posting was wrong, for was just stating what the Bible says regarding salvation!
Because this, is wrong,
<<<... you would agree with BOB that you do NOT have thr real Gospel IF you cannot agree with saved by grace alone ...>>>
You cut off the sentence!
We saved by grace alone, thru faith alone!
BIOB appears to disagree with that, do you side with him or me?
'TULIP' for:
'T' for Total Depravity of man ...
'U' for Unconditional Election ...
'L' for Limited Atonement ...
'I' for Irresistible Grace ...
'P' for Perseverance of the saints ...
In my opinion and experience TULIP spells Salvation. It is a help to understand the truth and reality of God's grace in one's personal life experience. Instead of TULIP, for example, a Roman Catholic will rub a wooden cross bracelet; and an Arminian would rub his knuckles. TULIP to me, has become a great consolation; in it I discovered how the grace of God operates, beginning with unregenerate man and ending with regenerate man,
T: Unregenerate man --- Total depravity
U: God --- Unconditional election
L: Christ --- Limited atonement
I: Holy Spirit --- Irresistible Grace
P: Regenerate man --- Perseverance of the saints.
I am a simple man and I love simple aids for, and in the faith.
The more earthy its soil the more glorious TULIP blooms.
The beauty of TULIP is like the beauty of the lilies of the field which Jesus compared with Solomon and his wisdom "in all his glory" --- what the wise cracks of human sovereignty and free will in all its glory of the fleshly mind.
This is what I, do, by grace through faith, believe.
Do you think Bob would agree with that?
'T' for Total Depravity of man ...
'U' for Unconditional Election ...
'L' for Limited Atonement ...
'I' for Irresistible Grace ...
'P' for Perseverance of the saints ...
In my opinion and experience TULIP spells Salvation. It is a help to understand the truth and reality of God's grace in one's personal life experience. Instead of TULIP, for example, a Roman Catholic will rub a wooden cross bracelet; and an Arminian would rub his knuckles. TULIP to me, has become a great consolation; in it I discovered how the grace of God operates, beginning with unregenerate man and ending with regenerate man,
T: Unregenerate man --- Total depravity
U: God --- Unconditional election
L: Christ --- Limited atonement
I: Holy Spirit --- Irresistible Grace
P: Regenerate man --- Perseverance of the saints.
I am a simple man and I love simple aids for, and in the faith.
The more earthy its soil the more glorious TULIP blooms.
The beauty of TULIP is like the beauty of the lilies of the field which Jesus compared with Solomon and his wisdom "in all his glory" --- what the wise cracks of human sovereignty and free will in all its glory of the fleshly mind.
This is what I, do, by grace through faith, believe.
Do you think Bob would agree with that?
Nope, as his view would be saved by grace, but kept only if we obey the Law well enough, especially keeping the sabbath!
Bob is as far away from being a Calvinist as one can be.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That is true.
Though I do believe in depravity of the sinful nature such that only the drawing of God makes free will possible.
And though I flatly reject the limited atoning sacrifice idea of Calvinists - I do believe in limited Atonment.
And though i do reject the OSAS doctrine of Calvinism - I do accept the Perseverance of the Saints idea.
And I fully agree that the Calvinists have the only model that allows for OSAS being fully consistent with the basic rules of their model.
But do not let the Calvinists know this.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I have not vowed to ignore GE - but half the time I don't even know what you are talking about so I stay out of it.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Nonsense.
I keep arguing that the lost cannot obey the Law of God - only the saved can. As I pointed out dozens of times.
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
But the twisty-turny trick you are trying above is to spin that into "the lost can obey the Law of God" as if that is what my claim is each time I say only the saved can do what Paul is stating and the lost cannot --
DHK keeps wanting to circle back to the state of the lost - and how in Romans 8 they do not and cannot keep the law of God - as if that is the only option we have. Are we all lost??
And so i keep declaring what the Bible says of the saints in places like Romans 8, Rev 14, 1john 5
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[FONT="]
[/FONT] 1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3
Paul may need that "news" as well for Paul said
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God". 1 Cor 7:19
And John claims the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And Paul says this in Romans 8 about those who claim that they "cannot" keep God's commands.
===========================
So then who according to Paul should be the ones complaining that they 'cannot submit to the Law of God"??
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
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Why fear the scripture and appeal to false accusation after false accusation instead of focused attention on the Word of God?
I claim my views are to be tested "Sola Scriptura" and that the "scriptura" in the actual post has to be "read" to do the test. I think you will agree with me that this is not all that hard of a concept to read and get right out of the post.
Just because you quote a plethora of Scripture does not mean you are "sola scripture." The scripture must be related in a meaningful way and they must be taken in context.
For example, 1Cor.7:19, quoted often here, is one verse that is never taken in context "and we both know that." Neither marriage nor circumcision has anything to do with the keeping of the law, and that is what that verse is all about. It is totally out of context. That is not sola scriptura.
Sola scripture involves the application of scripture to one's self. Without application scripture is meaningless. Jesus demonstrated with the rich young ruler. He told the rich young ruler (who came to him asking "What must I do to have eternal life?), to keep the law.
Jesus mentioned some of the law: Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, etc.
He answered "this I have I done from youth onward." (a lie).
Jesus proceeded to demonstrate how he had not kept the law. He broke the law of covetousness for he coveted his riches more than he desired Christ, and went away sorrowful.
No man can keep the law.
Do you keep the law; all of it; all the time?
It is time to "fess up. Answer all here honestly and stop avoiding this all important question. This is sola scriptura--the application of scripture to one's own self.
I thought it was just me............he loses me most of the time.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
So then who according to Paul should be the ones complaining that they 'cannot submit to the Law of God"??
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
So then - why don't these sources whine and complain that God's Commandments "cannot be kept"??
I Thomas Watson, the Seventh-day Baptists, the Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon, Andy Stanley, the Westminster Confession of Faith , D.L. Moody, R. C Sproul etc.
Possibly they read Rom 8:6-8 without choosing to be at war with it.
in Christ,
Bob
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
So then - why don't these sources whine and complain that God's Commandments "cannot be kept"??
I Thomas Watson, the Seventh-day Baptists, the Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon, Andy Stanley, the Westminster Confession of Faith , D.L. Moody, R. C Sproul etc.
Possibly they read Rom 8:6-8 without choosing to be at war with it.
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That is one area where I would have to agree that while some of his posts are clear - there are others where I do not know what he is talking about.
in Christ,
Bob
I am sure everyone of them would say that at some time or another they are at war with the law. Almost all of them are Calvinists:
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
They do believe Paul, and they do believe the Bible.
<<<the limited atoning sacrifice idea of Calvinists>>>
<<of Calvinists>>, a <<limited atoning sacrifice>>?????!!!!!
No comment
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The L in the TULIP is for "Limited Atonement" and by that they mean that on the cross - the Atoning Sacrifice of Christ was not the payment in suffering and death -- that was for the "Whole World".
If you go to the Calvinist vs Arminian section of the board here and you post this for 1John 2:2 "He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" you will get an endless stream of response from Calvinist as to why you should not suppose that when the Bible SAYS - "WHOLE WORLD" it means "Whole World" as in everybody.
I in fact have posted that numerous times there - and that is exactly the sort of response that follows.
in Christ,
Bob
If you go to the Calvinist vs Arminian section of the board here and you post this for 1John 2:2 "He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" you will get an endless stream of response from Calvinist as to why you should not suppose that when the Bible SAYS - "WHOLE WORLD" it means "Whole World" as in everybody.
I in fact have posted that numerous times there - and that is exactly the sort of response that follows.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
And they generally affirm the "Baptist Confession of Faith" where it claims in section 19 that the TEN Commandments are the MORAL law of God and are still binding on the saints as from Eden to this very day.
I find that a curious trend - the Calvinists can almost be counted on - to consistently affirm the Baptist Confession of Faith on that point.
But as you say - they do "believe in the Bible"
in Christ,
Bob
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You are good at taking rabbit trails and avoiding questions.
And yours is the exact response I expected from you ---just like you do with quoting Sunday keepers for Sabbath-keeping, here you protest against my protest AGAINST,
<<limited atoning sacrifice>>?????!!!!! which is a Sacrifice limited in its / His atoning Power
with a repeat of your argument for an unlimited atonement.
<unlimited atonement> implies an Atoning Sacrifice -Christ - who is limited in his Power to atone and / or save because NOT everyone He made atonement for, IS, saved.
Limited atonement says, Christ triumphed gloriously ---has made a perfect Sacrifice to save EVERYONE it is God's will to save.
A <<limited atoning sacrifice>> says Christ failed miserably ---has made an imperfect sacrifice to save EVERYONE it is God's will to save.
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