Featured Objective consideration of John 12:32

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -Matt. 7:12

"...bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." -Luke 6:28

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." Matt. 5:44

 

OK, I think I see what you mean now by Christ's response to gentiles. I thought your point was that the response was relayed back to them, and that somehow lead to your understanding all didn't mean all without distinction.

I still think that all is without distinction, meaning both Jew and gentile based on the context, particularly when Jesus was telling his disciples his divine plan all along, that salvation was not for the Jew only.

 

You're exactly correct and there is no need nor reason for you to be booted. He's expressed the same in his Scripture quoting directed at you and followed this into at least two threads. One would've been enough IMO. None would've been even better.

You simply have to pick with whom to engage, and decide if it is profitable for you to do so. You've answered the semi-pelagian tendencies Scripturally and thoroughly as I've read your answers. Doing these things won't win you any points in that camp, as we full well know, and will get you the above reactions and attacks. I'd practice Titus 3:10 if I were you. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that is my advice.

 

No, see you are simply wrong here. It is not about WHO you engage it is all about HOW you engage. And just in case you are wondering, I do not support anyone being booted unless they surpass all sensibilities of decorum and become exceptionally "nasty".

 

Friend, then why bother? I am not suggesting you stop debating, but if believe you are not getting the responses you want then disengage. That is what I now do. It took me a while to get there. I do not feel this compulsion to win the debate. Once I believe the conversation has either reached and end, or is no longer profitable, I stop.

Just a thought.

 

"All men" in John 12:32 means "ALL men" and not 'those 6 greeks asking me a question just now plus my 12 disciples". Obviously.

Yet some have tried to downsize this text -- while also downsizing texts like John 3:16 in the same fashion.

Does not work.

In John 12 we have -

.” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” 33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.




The "Ruler of this world" and "judgment is upon this world" is a reference to the global unlimited terms - the planet. Not some tiny piece of dirt where Christ is standing.


Thus Christ will "Draw ALL men unto Himself" by the same drawing that is mentioned in John 16 - the Holy Spirit "convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".

Jesus is reminding the group that He is drawing ALL mankind - not just one nation.

in Christ,


Bob

 

preacher4truth

There is no reason whatsoever.he has not been "nasty", but rather he has been biblical.If he is banned it is because he is being unjustly censored:thumbs:

Some here or on a 24/7 mission against the grace of God. He calls them back to scripture and they haggle about philosophy instead.They look bad...so they try and silence him.

.

:thumbsup:yes he has:wavey:

 

Vs 22-23, 32 does not say "one or two out of all types of mankind"

Vs 22-23, 32 does not say "a couple of arbitrarily selected FEW from all cultures in mankind".

Rather Christ is pointing out all humanity from the Jewish perspective - which is Jew and Gentile.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This is no "a couple from" or "the arbitrarily select few from both Jew and Gentile" in the text.

To get such Calvinist ideas one must "quote themselves" and then use an extreme amount of eisegesis calling it "inference".

in Christ,

Bob

 

Where do you see any nasty post by biblicist? That he has exposed the faulty reasoning of your friend does not equate to nastiness.

 

The Biblicist

yes...we all see the same thing:wavey:

yes indeed.

Yes....very clearly.

very graciously worded.

We have Biblical examples with God, Jesus and Paul where there came a time and place where both are equally applicable. I applied the scripture in Psalm to the appropriate case. Jesus put up with the scribes and pharisees for a long period of time but then in Matthew 23 the time and place occurred where your scriptures simply do not apply and mine does. In this situation my scripture applies and yours do not. I asked and asked and asked people like Bob and others to simply address the OP but to no avail. It is on the record for all to see. The time came to call a spade a spade.


yes.....correct..

Nothing in this post is over the line at all:wavey:

 

Agreed. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

It started in the op. The belittling and demeaning continued. How can't you see it?

"Now, can my opponents deal with my examination of John 12;32 objectively or will they simply resort to ridicule, RJP, personal attacks, distractions, etc.??? If I was a betting man (and I am not) I would bet they will resort to these cultic tactics."

 

That's right it did. They already had to shut down another thread because he suggested that anyone who is not a cal is not saved.

 

I was not saying he was "nasty" but rather my objections only lead to "punishment" if one is "nasty".

and BTW, he has exposed Nothing of the sort.

 

webdog

hello WD.....There are a few reasons why I do not see it.
1] I am probably biased toward Biblicist to begin with.I have seen many of His posts and i have noticed they are filled with good scriptures in context, key words explained, good questions asked.

2] I am biased toward him because i am in substantial agreement with most of what he posts...as I am with many of the sovereign grace brothers...so, when i read what he and the others post....I am not quite as much looking to attack and undermine what he offers. I consider what verses he offers and try to learn from them.if I see something major that needs correction i will offer it.

3] If you look at the Op and this portion you offer here.....I do not think his intention was hostile or nasty...let me demonstrate this....

let's look-

When I read this having followed many of his posts....what i see is a degree of irritation and a mild frustration.he posts in detail,and is looking for a line , by line response.....he puts time into his responses.He wants the courtesy of someone taking the time to go point by point over what he of reading what he offers ...without avoiding his "proofs".

If we were sitting over a cup of coffee and we read each post...you would see it. So all i see is an appeal to stay on topic, no personal attacks, deal with the issue.

This statement is not arrogant rude or nasty...he just has been on this bb for awhile and knows what many do.He would rather they do not do it ....but they do....do you see how i view it differently now?

The cultic tactics he speaks of are jumping out of the passage he is discussing and going to random verses.

 

Since this is a thread about John 12:32 I will make this statement again as it is on topic.

 

After reading some of the early posts of the thread, I would say the action was just.

 

Well, he's banned; you all happy now?