Baptists are not Reformed

[Squire Robertsson]

Sorry, but you left out the General Baptist who were the rivals of the Particulars back in the 17th century. Also, you're being SBC centric in leaving out the pre-modernist Northern Baptists (now represented in the GARBC and FBFI)

Despite your contention, free will or Arminianism has never been a Baptist belief from its origins. This is a relatively new phenomena, say a few hundred years. Its most extreme view is in the free will Baptist churches. It is only moderate in the SBC.

 

[DHK]

posted by Rippon...I know there is a linkage that modern-day Baptists have with the early Anabaptists. But many of the latter were in deep error. And these days how many of us have any connection with the Amish,Hutterites and Mennonites doctrinally? I think mainly Arminians want to establish a greater bond between modern day Baptists and the early Anabaptists.

Many, but not all. Anabaptist is a generic name including all who "baptized again." Indeed, some of them went into error, as you say, "many of them." Let's not broad brush the entire group. Not all of them believed error. Not all of them were the ancestors of the Hutterites and Amish. Some of them were our Baptist forefathers. A careful study of history will bear this out, but only if you are open to studying carefully Baptist History.

Read "The Anabaptist Story" by William Estep.
http://www.reformedreader.org/history/anabaptiststory.htm

It is not an unfair statement to say that there were local churches in every age since the apostles who held beliefs similar to what Baptists of today believe, though called by different names. An unbiased student of history should know that.

 

[Iconoclast]

Many, but not all. Anabaptist is a generic name including all who "baptized again." Indeed, some of them went into error, as you say, "many of them." Let's not broad brush the entire group. Not all of them believed error. Not all of them were the ancestors of the Hutterites and Amish. Some of them were our Baptist forefathers. A careful study of history will bear this out, but only if you are open to studying carefully Baptist History.

Read "The Anabaptist Story" by William Estep.
http://www.reformedreader.org/history/anabaptiststory.htm

It is not an unfair statement to say that there were local churches in every age since the apostles who held beliefs similar to what Baptists of today believe, though called by different names. An unbiased student of history should know that.

:thumbsup::thumbs: I have read similar things. the catholics lied about some of these groups,and the reformers were not patient with the errors.they did not want to sort it out.But many groups in the midst of much error...held to baptist distinctives and were put to death for their stand.
With many of these we have to own them as brothers.

That is why I believe particular baptists are what we today call Reformed Baptists.....not so much by the reformers and many of the modern padeos. and yet there was and is a need to hold true to the law of God and the DoG, as many want to leave them aside.
There had to be a reformation from rome by the reformers,and there needed to be a reformation from the anabaptists by those who grasped more of scripture then and now.:thumbsup:

 

[pinoybaptist]

I just came back from reading a beautiful blog about God turning a hard man completely and still misty eyed that I thought the title of the thread was "Bandits are not reformed". lol.

 

[Rippon]

You have already been proven wrong on the question of Baptists being Protestant.

Oh yeah? Prove it! LOL!

From the Theopedia, this is a summary of reformed Baptist beliefs today, which do not exactly parallel Presbyterianism.

It looks like Reformed Baptist beliefs today do,in fact parallel conservative Presbyterianism on at least 7 of the 9 points you listed from Theopedia. You are not supporting your case. Perhaps you are not that familiar with Presbyterianism. Though you were associated with it for 25 or 26 years (your account varies) you were not saved then,so your memory may be a bit cloudy. And you have not been a part of a Reformed Baptist Church either so your knowlege of the subject is limited.

Despite your contention, free will or Arminianism has never been a Baptist belief from its origins.

Squire set you straight on that score.

All other Protestant denominations have a hierarchy.

You couldn't be more wrong. Does the Evangelical Free Church have a hierarchy? Do independent churches,do all the non-denominational churches? Many of them are baptistic though they don't identify themseves as Baptists in their church names.Think things through.

Believe it or not, people can express differences of opinion without being arrogant, mean and self-centered.

Yeah,you should try that approach. Folks are tired of your old shenanigans.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh yeah? Prove it! LOL!


It looks like Reformed Baptist beliefs today do,in fact parallel conservative Presbyterianism on at least 7 of the 9 points you listed from Theopedia. You are not supporting your case. Perhaps you are not that familiar with Presbyterianism. Though you were associated with it for 25 or 26 years (your account varies) you were not saved then,so your memory may be a bit cloudy. And you have not been a part of a Reformed Baptist Church either so your knowlege of the subject is limited.

First brudder, I don't want to be associated with anything even remotely Roman Catholic....I have been there and I have done that and Protestants have that lingering smell of
The Roman Candle.....baby sprinkling, sacrimentalism,robes.

Yeah,you should try that approach. Folks are tired of your old shenanigans.

Well the man is trying to convey something here Rippon so maybe if you were to listen......I mean really listen, you would hear something more than your seeing right now. Oh and I love the word 'shenanigans' for it is rich with Gaelic tones :love2: will have to Google it.

 

[Rippon]

First brudder, I don't want to be associated with anything even remotely Roman Catholic....I have been there and I have done that and Protestants have that lingering smell of
The Roman Candle.....baby sprinkling, sacrimentalism,robes.

You are one confused fella.

 

[Bro. James]

Anyone interested in starting a CFC? Fellows Club

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are one confused fella.

How extremely left brained....:laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

First brudder, I don't want to be associated with anything even remotely Roman Catholic....I have been there and I have done that and Protestants have that lingering smell of
The Roman Candle.....baby sprinkling, sacrimentalism,robes.

Well said! Sadly there are some Fancy Baptist???? Communions where the preacher takes up robes and speaks from a hole in the wall!

 

[Rippon]

Sadly there are some Fancy Baptist???? Communions where the preacher takes up robes and speaks from a hole in the wall!

Such as...?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

It is not an unfair statement to say that there were local churches in every age since the apostles who held beliefs similar to what Baptists of today believe, though called by different names. An unbiased student of history should know that.

"Unbiased student" being the key phrase of that post. There aren't a lot of those on here, unfortunately.

 

[Rippon]

Many, but not all. Anabaptist is a generic name including all who "baptized again." Indeed, some of them went into error, as you say, "many of them." Let's not broad brush the entire group. Not all of them believed error.

Both the early General Baptists and those later knwn as Particular Baptists ran away from the term Anabaptist. They rejected it. On the Calvinist side of things the 1644 document was crafted so that the rest of the Reformed world would know that they were not Anabaptists and did not hold to their errors.

Read "The Anabaptist Story" by William Estep.
http://www.reformedreader.org/history/anabaptiststory.htm

Yes,I did read it. Thank you.

Did you read that Estep did not accept the theory that there was "a continuity of organization in small groups outside the Catholic church from A.D. 30-1525."? Did you read the following? "Actually these non-Catholic groups differed widely from each other;all held some heretical views and in many cases had no conection with each other."

It is not an unfair statement to say that there were local churches in every age since the apostles who held beliefs similar to what Baptists of today believe, though called by different names. An unbiased student of history should know that.

No,that has not been established. And Estep has not helped you in that regard either.

 

[Rippon]

It looks like Reformed Baptist beliefs today do,in fact parallel conservative Presbyterianism on at least 7 of the 9 points you listed from Theopedia. You are not supporting your case. Perhaps you are not that familiar with Presbyterianism. Though you were associated with it for 25 or 26 years (your account varies) you were not saved then,so your memory may be a bit cloudy. And you have not been a part of a Reformed Baptist Church either so your knowledge of the subject is limited.


You couldn't be more wrong. Does the Evangelical Free Church have a hierarchy? Do independent churches,do all the non-denominational churches? Many of them are baptistic though they don't identify themseves as Baptists in their church names.Think things through.

This was my response to your post #80 (minus some minor aspects). Do you have a reasonable reply?

 

[saturneptune]

This was my response to your post #80 (minus some minor aspects). Do you have a reasonable reply?

It is obvious you know nothing of the Presbyterian faith. Please infect another denomination.

 

[Rippon]

It is obvious you know nothing of the Presbyterian faith. Please infect another denomination.

I should have realized that asking for a reasonable reply was beyond your ability.

You are not able to respond to civil discussion. You were dead wrong and it hurts your ego to admit that your Theopedia article did nothing but damage the case you were attempting to make. Hmm...7 out of 9 points of common-ground between conservative Presbyterianism and Reformed Baptists --definite commonalities there.

And the fact that the Evangelical Free Church,Plymouth Brethren, and many other independent,non-denominational churches are Protestant denominations which have no hierarchies really sinks your other thesis.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is obvious you know nothing of the Presbyterian faith. Please infect another denomination.

S/N...if he has studied the Westminster confessions, then he knows quite allot about Presbyterianism. My wife and her people, being both Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed, thought that I would be happy as a Presbyter because of sacrementalism
and the baby watering and the robes....and then I could study confessions and ta da....I'm a Reformed Catholic.....not as hocus pocus as a Catlik, but they always suspected me a Catlik none the less....a Catlik on a leash & collar. Ahhhh, REFORMED.

BTW......Methodists are considered crazy & Baptists are just plain Methodists without shoes. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now I am a Baptist because I absolutely "HATE" the arrogance of the Presbyterians and all of them thar Reformed. You tell me my kids in hell cause he was unfortunate to have been born and died out of wedlock to a miscrient (anyone who isn't part of the true Reformed--not those idiot Baptists thinkin they are Reformed) and I am going to tell you to take your saddle bags and get off my property pronto (and take your horse with you)!

But my wife now, she is different. She views that type of elietist clap trap religion as deadly serious stuff (and it hurt her to the Quick) . As far as she is conserned, I should have unloaded my 6 shooter into their face & then pulled out the saddle rifle & left them to the buzzards. Your now her deadly enemy.

The pushback I get from her regarding church eating their young is unbelievable....almost pathological.....and it all begins with Reformed and their apparent inability to address the placement of kids who die in childbirth.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I should have realized that asking for a reasonable reply was beyond your ability.

It's not just you. He insults everybody.

I guess as long as the moderators say it's OK, he'll continue to do so.

I'm just ignoring him at this point. Might be best if you do the same.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's not just you. He insults everybody.

I guess as long as the moderators say it's OK, he'll continue to do so.

I'm just ignoring him at this point. Might be best if you do the same.

What ...he doesn't insult me. :laugh:

Ha ha ha