When were you saved ?

[pinoybaptist]

The Five Phases (or Stages) of Salvation

Introduction from the link:

When Were You Saved?
This common question tries to pin eternal life down to some act at some point in time. Is this Biblical? Did the apostles ever ask this question? How would they answer such a question? Weren't we all saved at the cross?

Let's ask Paul the question.
Paul said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).
Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

This article is titled "The Five Phases of Salvation"....I have not read all of the articles on the website, so it is safe to declare I DO NOT KNOW if I believe in everything they say they believe, and vice-versa.

On these five phases, though, I agree.

Moderators: Up to you if you want to move this to the Cal-Arm section.
All I ask of those who will participate, there or on this forum, is a non-sarcastic and accusatory way of discussion.
Either we are brethren, or we are enemies.
You set the tone.
I'll sing along.

 

[kyredneck]

When were you saved?

I honestly cannot pinpoint WHEN. I grew up going to a SB Church and from my earliest memories Jesus Christ was my hero, for real. That's not to say I didn't stray, because I've sinned greatly, but in my heart I've always known Him as long as I can remember, no matter what I did, He was the supreme being, the ultimate example to aspire to.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I honestly cannot pinpoint WHEN. I grew up going to a SB Church and from my earliest memories Jesus Christ was my hero, for real. That's not to say I didn't stray, because I've sinned greatly, but in my heart I've always known Him as long as I can remember, no matter what I did, He was the supreme being, the ultimate example to aspire to.

I think it is more likely we do not know exactly when we were quickened, or regenerated, since Christ likens that to the wind which we feel but do not see and so, yes, you are right there.

the real question should have been "when were you born from above" rather than when you were saved.

I know I was saved from that point in eternity, or before the foundation of the world, or from the foundation of the world, when He included my name in His roster of "heaven's nationals" a.k.a. the Lamb's book of life.

That salvation was guaranteed by the blood of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and sealed with finality by the blood of Calvary's lamb here in time.

 

[JamesL]

The Five Phases (or Stages) of Salvation

Introduction from the link:



This article is titled "The Five Phases of Salvation"....I have not read all of the articles on the website, so it is safe to declare I DO NOT KNOW if I believe in everything they say they believe, and vice-versa.

On these five phases, though, I agree.

Moderators: Up to you if you want to move this to the Cal-Arm section.
All I ask of those who will participate, there or on this forum, is a non-sarcastic and accusatory way of discussion.
Either we are brethren, or we are enemies.
You set the tone.
I'll sing along.

I have not read the article, but I agree wholeheartedly that "saved" in scripture is much broader than "when were you born from above". I actually like the way you worded that, and I have truly struggled in the past to frame the question in such a way as to convey a proper understanding of what is being asked and answered

As for 5 stages (or phases), I would not agree in whole. I see 7 aspects of salvation, the other two not listed are:
1) I was saved from a guilty conscience when I was baptized in water (1Pet 3:21) which has enabled me to walk in newness of life (Rom 6:4)
2) the future aspect of salvation mentioned is actually two-fold:
a) physical resurrection (Rom 5:9-10) Reconciled by His death is now. Shall be saved (from physical death) by His [resurrection] life will happen when we are also raised imperishable, as He is the first fruit (1Cor 15:23)
b) when we share in His glory and receive rewards, at His coming (Heb 2:9-10, Matt 10:20, Rom 8:17, 10:9-13, James 2:12-14)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nicely formatted brother ....thanks:thumbsup:

 

[pinoybaptist]

I understand that some who may want to discuss may not have the time to actually go and read the article, thinking it just might be too long for them to spend time on.
So, here I cut and paste the phases.
JamesL might actually find the other two he thinks should make the five phases seven, in between lines of one of these five.
Or he may actually be right on.

The ETERNAL PHASE is God's plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God's work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God's application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ's death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry "Abba, Father." With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

Now, there is a chart in the article that kind of makes these points a little more detailed.
I don't know if I'll be able to cut/paste a chart, though.
Or if the BB program has that capability.

 

[pinoybaptist]

My first, and this is just me, probably, criticism of this POV, though I said I agree with the article, is that the "practical phase" assumes ALL of God's elect will come into that phase and respond positively.
I do not think so.
I think NOT ALL OF GOD'S ELECT will enter that 'phase' for the simple reason that not all of God's elect will actually get to hear the gospel by reason of chronology, geography, ideology, creed, or whatever of the things that divide God's people in this fallen dimension of time, nor will all of God's elect be in total obedience to the gospel and its teachings.
The practical phase kind of makes this whole attempt at soteriology more Calvinistic than Primitive Baptist.
Just my POV from the Primitive Baptist microscope, and I think not all of my fellow PB's will agree, either.

 

[pinoybaptist]

wonder if this will work in as far as the chart ? I used the "insert image" applet.
nope, looks like it didn't.
oh, well.
lemme try the insert link one then.
here goes.
the chart here in pdf

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My first, and this is just me, probably, criticism of this POV, though I said I agree with the article, is that the "practical phase" assumes ALL of God's elect will come into that phase and respond positively.
I do not think so.
I think NOT ALL OF GOD'S ELECT will enter that 'phase' for the simple reason that not all of God's elect will actually get to hear the gospel by reason of chronology, geography, ideology, creed, or whatever of the things that divide God's people in this fallen dimension of time, nor will all of God's elect be in total obedience to the gospel and its teachings.
The practical phase kind of makes this whole attempt at soteriology more Calvinistic than Primitive Baptist.
Just my POV from the Primitive Baptist microscope, and I think not all of my fellow PB's will agree, either.

The Arminians must view us as nuts:laugh:

 

[JamesL]

I read the article, and I would say it is definitely coming from a Calvinist perspective, which I do not share. The author had the future aspect as the time when we will finally be made perfect, which reminds me of the WCF. That's always been a head scratcher for me, as it seems to relegate regeneration to a subjective change in disposition, rather than an objective washing as described in Titus 3:5.

But, regardless of the driving perspective, I appreciate teachings that are likely to make people study.

One bible study at our church was taught by a visiting seminary professor, and he chose the subject of whether or not we can lose our salvation. When he polled the class, he was totally surprised that I raised my hand for both yes and no. Then I went on to explain that salvation is very broad in the NT.

Afterwards, he asked me where did I go to seminary, because that's not something a layman would typically know. I said it's a shame that people learn in seminary and then fail to teach the laity

 

[evenifigoalone]

I was five years old. We had been attending this IFB church for a little while, and one day I decided I wanted to accept Jesus into my heart...so I told my mom and she said, okay, let's talk to the pastor after church.
I don't remember that, though. I'm going by what my mom told me about that day. What I DO remember about that day is one moment when praying with the pastor.

Later on in my teens some things happened that led me to question God's existence, although I had never questioned up to that point. I didn't give up on believing just like that, but I kept on searching. God eventually revealed Himself to me (just when I was ready to give up, seemingly), and that was the start of a life-changing experience and some of the most exciting times of my life.
There were times (such as my period of doubt and later on in dealing with deep depression) that I just wanted to quit, throw my hands up and walk away from the faith. But God wouldn't let me go.

I honestly believe that I was saved as a five year old. Sure, there were things I didn't have the mental capacity to understand back then. But I believed that Jesus died and rose again and I believed the Bible.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

One bible study at our church was taught by a visiting seminary professor, and he chose the subject of whether or not we can lose our salvation. When he polled the class, he was totally surprised that I raised my hand for both yes and no. Then I went on to explain that salvation is very broad in the NT.

Please elaborate. I read your 7 aspects on page 1. How can you lose your salvation(s) in light of those 7 aspects?

 

[preacher4truth]

IThat's always been a head scratcher for me, as it seems to relegate regeneration to a subjective change in disposition, rather than an objective washing as described in Titus 3:5.

Regeneration affects a change in disposition -- 1 Thess. 1:1-10; Acts 9; Ez. 36:26,27; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; Hebrews 12:14; 2 Timothy 2:19, the entirety of 1 John. Not only do we believe this, but we also believe the washing in Titus as well, all elements fitting together nicely, both washing and sanctification showing true regeneration.

 

[preacher4truth]

The Arminians must view us as nuts:laugh:

That's just pure mysticism.

 

[preacher4truth]

My salvation is a long story. I was first confronted with the Gospel at a young age, maybe 10 and I believed at that moment and this was in a UMC church.

At that point I continued in my belief in the Gospel, then at about age 22 we felt drawn to Christ to serve Him and especially know Him and so we joined with the Baptists.

I've felt God's hand upon me from a young age, hard to explain, but I feel He has always been saving me. I think of this when I read the Psalms how David is always calling upon God for salvation from many differing aspects of his life. I guess it goes along with 'I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved'.

 

[pinoybaptist]

this thread took a while to get off the ground, so at 9 pm Cali time, I knocked off to sleep.
It's got 14 replies and 2 pages on it, and I haven't read all additional replies since I went to bed, and my wife is urging me to get ready for church.
So church it is.
We'll be in church whole day to the late afternoon, and church is 50 miles away, so I'll check in on you guys tonight.
Keep the discuss civil.
Catch y'all later.
Enjoy your services, and be blessed.

 

[JamesL]

Please elaborate. I read your 7 aspects on page 1. How can you lose your salvation(s) in light of those 7 aspects?

Only one aspect of salvation can be lost, rewards.

James 2:12 instructs us to speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. v13 tells us that judgment will be without mercy for those who have shown no mercy. v14 asks "what if a man says he has faith but has no works? Will faith, by itself, save him?

It's a rhetorical question, being answered "no". Faith by itself will not save him. From what? The judgment just mentioned, which is the believer's judgment. The only judgment a believer will face is at the Bema Seat, for rewards. 3:1 tells us that teachers will receive a stricter judgment.

Matthew 10:40-42 says "He who receives you receives Me...And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."

Many parables that Jesus taught show that what one has will be taken from him and given to the one who did more - minas, talents, etc.

There are many scriptures which contain a conditional element for "salvation" or "eternal life". Unfortunately, many try to reverse the prescription, as if Jesus said "he who is saved will endure to the end" which is not at all what He said.

I don't believe justification or regeneration can be lost, nor will the Holy Spirit be taken from a believer.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I think it is more likely we do not know exactly when we were quickened, or regenerated, since Christ likens that to the wind which we feel but do not see and so, yes, you are right there.

It varies from person to person. For example, I know exactly, to the minute, when I was saved. People find this hard to believe, but I felt the Holy Spirit enter in! It was an instantaneous change of heart and mind -- and many of you Reformed are going to deny this, hate it as untrue: It was after I prayed for relief from myself, knowing that I did not understand who God was, but knowing absolutely by His divine knowledge shared with me that I was a sinner in need of a Savior. That is not how I put it then. I couldn't "put it" anyway then. But it is what I have come to understand and know about that glorious moment. The second that prayer was finished, He was in me. I knew it, I felt it, and I broke down and cried.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's just pure mysticism.

Don't drop that bomb w/o an explaination. Mysticism how?I grasp mysticism like RC dogma....Our Lady of Fatima...that stuff. Presbyterians with their sacrimentalism....but Primitive Baptists!?! Come on.....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[pinoybaptist]

It varies from person to person. For example, I know exactly, to the minute, when I was saved. People find this hard to believe, but I felt the Holy Spirit enter in! It was an instantaneous change of heart and mind -- and many of you Reformed are going to deny this, hate it as untrue: It was after I prayed for relief from myself, knowing that I did not understand who God was, but knowing absolutely by His divine knowledge shared with me that I was a sinner in need of a Savior. That is not how I put it then. I couldn't "put it" anyway then. But it is what I have come to understand and know about that glorious moment. The second that prayer was finished, He was in me. I knew it, I felt it, and I broke down and cried.

I'd say your experience is one of conversion, not of salvation.
I don't know where you get the idea that we (Reformeds, Calvinists, Doctrine of Grace adherents) HATE this idea.