John 14:12, Do You Believe On Jesus?

[Stegley]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do."

"Verily, verily" signifies Jesus is speaking an absolute truth, here. That being so, anyone in this forum who believes on Jesus should have some sort of a personal history of doing both the same and greater works as did Jesus. The specified entity for doing so is an individual person "He," and not any collective group such as The Church.

Does anyone in here actually believe on Jesus? Got witness?

 

[steaver]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do."

"Verily, verily" signifies Jesus is speaking an absolute truth, here. That being so, anyone in this forum who believes on Jesus should have some sort of a personal history of doing both the same and greater works as did Jesus. The specified entity for doing so is an individual person "He," and not any collective group such as The Church.

Does anyone in here actually believe on Jesus? Got witness?

It is your OP, maybe you could get us started and give your witness first?

 

[Scarlett O.]

"greater" = more
"works" = labor

Jesus is telling that those who believe on him will do the same labor and more labor than Him because He is leaving and the Holy Spirit is coming. (Read the context)

Well, what WERE the works of Jesus?

• Matthew 4:23 - "Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people."

• Luke 4:19 - "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim freedom to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

• Matthew 20:26-28 - "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

• Acts 10:38 = "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

So, Christ's ministry lasted about 3 years.


Those who believe on Him and are anointed by the Holy Spirit will have works, labors, and ministries far more expanded in terms of time - NOT sensational miracles. That passage doesn't talk about miracles, but work (labor).


Just look at Peter. On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples, Peter spoke to the people, and on that day alone, 3000 people were saved.



So what "great" works are we supposed to be doing under the Holy Spirit's anointing and God's direction? The same as Jesus listed above - in greater quantity.

• teaching
• proclaiming the gospel
• preaching good news to the poor (in spirit)
• proclaim freedom to the captives/set free the oppressed (captive to sin/oppressed by sin)
• recover the sight to the blind (spiritually blind)
• serve others
• give our lives (time, talents, resources, everything we are) to see that others are ransomed by Christ
• doing good
• healing those oppressed by the devil (literally praying for/laying hands on those spiritually oppressed AND witnessing to others and seeing God save their immortal souls from oppression)
• healing from disease and sickness (spiritual and physical - laying on of hands)

I do have just one question Stegly ... are you a Christian? I ask because this is a question that I have heard from non-believers before who are trying to discredit Christians.

 

[Stegley]

"greater" = more
"works" = labor

Jesus is telling that those who believe on him will do the same labor and more labor than Him because He is leaving and the Holy Spirit is coming. (Read the context)

Well, what WERE the works of Jesus?

• Matthew 4:23 - "Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people."

• Luke 4:19 - "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim freedom to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

• Matthew 20:26-28 - "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

• Acts 10:38 = "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

So, Christ's ministry lasted about 3 years.


Those who believe on Him and are anointed by the Holy Spirit will have works, labors, and ministries far more expanded in terms of time - NOT sensational miracles. That passage doesn't talk about miracles, but work (labor).


Just look at Peter. On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples, Peter spoke to the people, and on that day alone, 3000 people were saved.



So what "great" works are we supposed to be doing under the Holy Spirit's anointing and God's direction? The same as Jesus listed above - in greater quantity.

• teaching
• proclaiming the gospel
• preaching good news to the poor (in spirit)
• proclaim freedom to the captives/set free the oppressed (captive to sin/oppressed by sin)
• recover the sight to the blind (spiritually blind)
• serve others
• give our lives (time, talents, resources, everything we are) to see that others are ransomed by Christ
• doing good
• healing those oppressed by the devil (literally praying for/laying hands on those spiritually oppressed AND witnessing to others and seeing God save their immortal souls from oppression)
• healing from disease and sickness (spiritual and physical - laying on of hands)

I do have just one question Stegly ... are you a Christian? I ask because this is a question that I have heard from non-believers before who are trying to discredit Christians.

Jesus' work was indeed sensational miracles. The Apostles did them too. Do you?

 

[steaver]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do."

"Verily, verily" signifies Jesus is speaking an absolute truth, here. That being so, anyone in this forum who believes on Jesus should have some sort of a personal history of doing both the same and greater works as did Jesus. The specified entity for doing so is an individual person "He," and not any collective group such as The Church.

Does anyone in here actually believe on Jesus? Got witness?

It is your OP, maybe you could get us started and give your witness first?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Jesus' work was indeed sensational miracles. The Apostles did them too. Do you?

No, Jesus' work nor the Apostles' work was not sensational miracles. Their work - in a small part - included sensational miracles or a small part of the work was done on a foundation of a miracle. The bulk of it included what the Scripture passages that I cited says was the work of Christ and the Apostles and Christians today.

Those four verses that I cited about the work of Jesus Christ were just the four that I could remember/looked up. There may be more.

Did you read those passages about the work of Jesus and what He, Himself, said it entailed? Read it, Stegley. Jesus Christ, Himself, state that His work was comprised of many things.

Yes, I believe on Jesus and have done and have completed for over 30 years some of the work that He did. Greater = more. Works = labor.

Are you going to answer my question to you about yourself?

I've answered yours.

 

[DHK]

Jesus' work was indeed sensational miracles. The Apostles did them too. Do you?

It is your OP. You start. What sensational miracles have you done?
Be serious about posting or don't post at all.

 

[steaver]

It is your OP. You start. What sensational miracles have you done?
Be serious about posting or don't post at all.

In this case, I do believe this person is trolling. Otherwise, he would answer.

 

[Stegley]

No, Jesus' work nor the Apostles' work was not sensational miracles. Their work - in a small part - included sensational miracles or a small part of the work was done on a foundation of a miracle. The bulk of it included what the Scripture passages that I cited says was the work of Christ and the Apostles and Christians today.

Those four verses that I cited about the work of Jesus Christ were just the four that I could remember/looked up. There may be more.

Did you read those passages about the work of Jesus and what He, Himself, said it entailed? Read it, Stegley. Jesus Christ, Himself, state that His work was comprised of many things.

Yes, I believe on Jesus and have done and have completed for over 30 years some of the work that He did. Greater = more. Works = labor.

Are you going to answer my question to you about yourself?

I've answered yours.

Share your ideas about which of the recorded actions and deeds of Jesus and His Apostles are being done by The Church today. Do not waste our attention here with conceptual desctiptions and idealized ministries which Christians are "hoping and trying their best to do."

Cite specifics without babbling speculation mixed in.

 

[Stegley]

In this case, I do believe this person is trolling. Otherwise, he would answer.

Still stuck on your weak little ad hominems, I see. Lol.

Have you bothered to read Luke 4:16-30 where Jesus trolled His own home town fellow Jews so severely and skillfully they tried to literally kill him? Lol. You live in your own little world, Dontcha?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Share your ideas about which of the recorded actions and deeds of Jesus and His Apostles are being done by The Church today. Do not waste our attention here with conceptual desctiptions and idealized ministries which Christians are "hoping and trying their best to do."

Cite specifics without babbling speculation mixed in.

I don't believe that I have babbled to you yet. I know my posts tend to be long, but the length of one's post does not deny its specificity.

Alright, here is the list I gave you earlier of the actual and extremely specific job description that Jesus gave for Himself (and Matthew and Paul gave for Him) and His list of His "works" (which include what the church will do).

I will post no "conceptual descriptions" or "idealized ministries". I will only list a few examples of works of Jesus done by churches under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

• teaching = My church teaches the gospel to all age levels. I have specifically taught Genesis, Exodus, Daniel, Jonah, Matthew, and Acts to children at a Christian School where I used to teach. We read them verse by verse and discussed their meaning with me being the one leading them to the understanding.
  

• proclaiming the gospel = That's done at my church every Sunday. No matter the Biblical passage that my pastor preaches from - he always relates it to the gospel.

• preaching good news to the poor (in spirit) = My church sends a team to the local psych ward, substance abuse ward, and local nursing homes every single week. The good news of the love and salvation power of Jesus Christ is preached to the every single week. I used to belong to a Sunday School class who visited those in prison weekly and invited those in half-way houses to come to church with us. Many of them did.
  

• proclaim freedom to the captives/set free the oppressed (captive to sin/oppressed by sin) = We welcome those captive by sin in my church and pray for their deliverance. I have two people oppressed by sin in my Sunday School class. They have DEEP oppressions and are VERY needy. I am there for them any time they need me. So is my Sunday School class. Another church in my area has a ministry specifically to those oppressed by sin and evil. They are doing a marvelous work. They meet weekly for counsel, prayer, unloading the burden, and the teaching of the freedom in Jesus Christ.

Is this what you are looking for? I can give you more if you like.

Oh, and are you a Christian?

 

[DHK]

Share your ideas about which of the recorded actions and deeds of Jesus and His Apostles are being done by The Church today. Do not waste our attention here with conceptual desctiptions and idealized ministries which Christians are "hoping and trying their best to do."

Cite specifics without babbling speculation mixed in.

You ask of others what you yourself cannot do.
What miracles have you done. Have you walked on water, raised the dead, changed water into wine, etc.?
What miracles (greater than Jesus), have you done?
Please provide a list.

 

[steaver]

Still stuck on your weak little ad hominems, I see. Lol.

Have you bothered to read Luke 4:16-30 where Jesus trolled His own home town fellow Jews so severely and skillfully they tried to literally kill him? Lol. You live in your own little world, Dontcha?

You started the thread. Answer your own questions if you expect others to give answer. I don't think you have an answer.

Please consider and believe!

John3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John3:17 - "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

John3:18 - "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John3:19 - "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

John3:20 - "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

John3:21 - "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

 

[plain_n_simple]

My grandson was knocked unconscious and was out several hours. We drove 2 hours to the hospital to see him. Nothing had changed for 11 hours since the accident. My wife and I laid our hands on his little body and commanded the sickness out and be restored in Jesus' name. He woke up an hour later. My son was grateful and the nurses were very surprised. That's the most recent.

 

[plain_n_simple]

My sister-in-law was in great distress about her son cutting himself off completely from their lives. We prayed with her and declared a victory for reconciliation. My wife had a dream that night about our nephew and a butterfly. That was strange I thought. We took her sister to a church we visit sometimes and the pastor looked at the sister and said he saw a butterfly over her head as we walked in. That was strange I thought. A week later the son showed up at his mothers house and said he was sorry and loved her. He had a card in his hand for her with a butterfly on it, and she has never liked butterflies in particular. We praised and thanked God. The sister in now seeking God.

 

[plain_n_simple]

One day my 2 year old granddaughter fell and got a goose egg on her forehead. I put my hand on it after she calmed down, and told it to reduce and go go back to normal. A minutes later we watched in amazement the swelling and redness disappear praise God! Blessed is he who has seen and believed.
Blessed is he who has not seen but believed.
Notice that blessing comes with believing the works of Jesus.

 

[steaver]

One day my 2 year old granddaughter fell and got a goose egg on her forehead. I put my hand on it after she calmed down, and told it to reduce and go go back to normal. A minutes later we watched in amazement the swelling and redness disappear praise God! Blessed is he who has seen and believed.
Blessed is he who has not seen but believed.
Notice that blessing comes with believing the works of Jesus.

What I don't understand though, is that if you particularly have this gift of laying on of hands and healing people, then why are you not visiting hospitals everyday? Isn't there a difference in all Christians having the faith to pray for healing, and maybe God will, maybe God will not, and a Christian like an Apostle having "the" gift of healing were that Apostle can lay hands on anyone at any time and it is accomplished everytime??

I'm sure you have had opportunity many times to lay hands on another and pray for healing, does the person always get healed at your command/prayer??

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

One day my 2 year old granddaughter fell and got a goose egg on her forehead. I put my hand on it after she calmed down, and told it to reduce and go go back to normal. A minutes later we watched in amazement the swelling and redness disappear praise God! Blessed is he who has seen and believed.
Blessed is he who has not seen but believed.
Notice that blessing comes with believing the works of Jesus.

Interesting. In another thread, it was less than 20 seconds. Here it is "minutes." Which is it?

What I don't understand though, is that if you particularly have this gift of laying on of hands and healing people, then why are you not visiting hospitals everyday? Isn't there a difference in all Christians having the faith to pray for healing, and maybe God will, maybe God will not, and a Christian like an Apostle having "the" gift of healing were that Apostle can lay hands on anyone at any time and it is accomplished everytime??

I'm sure you have had opportunity many times to lay hands on another and pray for healing, does the person always get healed at your command/prayer??

Yeah, he'll answer that question, pronto!

Not.

 

[Stegley]

I don't believe that I have babbled to you yet. I know my posts tend to be long, but the length of one's post does not deny its specificity.

Alright, here is the list I gave you earlier of the actual and extremely specific job description that Jesus gave for Himself (and Matthew and Paul gave for Him) and His list of His "works" (which include what the church will do).

I will post no "conceptual descriptions" or "idealized ministries". I will only list a few examples of works of Jesus done by churches under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

• teaching = My church teaches the gospel to all age levels. I have specifically taught Genesis, Exodus, Daniel, Jonah, Matthew, and Acts to children at a Christian School where I used to teach. We read them verse by verse and discussed their meaning with me being the one leading them to the understanding.
  

• proclaiming the gospel = That's done at my church every Sunday. No matter the Biblical passage that my pastor preaches from - he always relates it to the gospel.

• preaching good news to the poor (in spirit) = My church sends a team to the local psych ward, substance abuse ward, and local nursing homes every single week. The good news of the love and salvation power of Jesus Christ is preached to the every single week. I used to belong to a Sunday School class who visited those in prison weekly and invited those in half-way houses to come to church with us. Many of them did.
  

• proclaim freedom to the captives/set free the oppressed (captive to sin/oppressed by sin) = We welcome those captive by sin in my church and pray for their deliverance. I have two people oppressed by sin in my Sunday School class. They have DEEP oppressions and are VERY needy. I am there for them any time they need me. So is my Sunday School class. Another church in my area has a ministry specifically to those oppressed by sin and evil. They are doing a marvelous work. They meet weekly for counsel, prayer, unloading the burden, and the teaching of the freedom in Jesus Christ.

Is this what you are looking for? I can give you more if you like.

Oh, and are you a Christian?

All of the things you categorized and listed consist of talking to people. Are you intentionally or purposefully omitting the material deeds Jesus did which He stated in John 12:14 would be both replicated as "same" and exceeded as "greater" by Real Believers?

 

[Stegley]

You ask of others what you yourself cannot do.
What miracles have you done. Have you walked on water, raised the dead, changed water into wine, etc.?
What miracles (greater than Jesus), have you done?
Please provide a list.

So, since you are not speaking of your works as the same or greater than those of Jesus, do you still claim to "believe on Him?"