Luke2427 said:
God is displeased with sin that he willed to exist. But sin and evil serve a glorious purpose. Without sin there is no grace, no lamb dying for sinners and receiving throughout the endless ages of eternity the praises of the redeemed who sing a song that angels cannot sing, etc, etc, etc...
So what is your problem with this issue?
You say "God willed sin to exist" - no such text.
By contrast - there actually is a text that says "
God is not WILLING that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" and Calvinists choose to water the text down that actually does exist regarding what "God willed" while then making up something about "God willed sin to exist".
Again, a fifth grader could read that verse and clearly see that God is talking about his own people- that God is not willing that ANY of his own people should perish.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The any refers back just four words to the "usward." A child can see that. You ought to know better if you are going to attack a theological system. It is unethical for you to do so until you ACTUALLY KNOW what you are talking about.
.
There is a false hope in Calvinism that the pronoun class "We, Us, Our, Ours" will somehow enable a downsize of "all" and "World" so as to get them downsized to something compatible with Calvinism.
Calvinism needs a convoluted restriction for "ALL" in 2Peter 3 by appealing to "us-ward" that is defined eisegetically as "
us who are saved at the writing of this letter and none of the lost" which is pure nonsense since "waiting' is for the purpose of getting more of the lost - saved
or else they need the extreme bend-and-wrench downsizing "ALL" via the "us ward" idea that ALL just means
"us who are saved at the writing of this letter and all the lost today that will one day be saved" which also does not work because God waited long beyond the lives of the first century humanity
-- so then it becomes an effort to downsize "ALL" via the "US ward" as being "
All the saved as of the writing of this letter, all the lost as of the writing of this letter that would one day be saved, and all the unborn who though lost will one day be saved". Which puts Calvinism in a box for "US" and "OUR".
Now notice that when their own eisegetical bend-and-wrench is used for "US" and "OUR" what happens in 1John 2:2 "
He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" then Calvinism does not survive the text because they have used up "
All the saved as of the writing of this letter, all the lost as of the writing of this letter that would one day be saved, and all the unborn who though lost will one day be saved" as the "OUR" and "US" definition -
leaving "WHOLE WORLD" undownsized!!
So while you will find a lot of ad hominem ranting about who is "a child" or who is "unethical for noticing" etc - when it comes to complaining about those who do not downsize the "ALL" in 2Peter 3 - yet it is done without exposing the "details" that will so box-in Calvinism via 2Peter 3 that it will not survive 1John 2:2.
[FONT="]
What is worse for Calvinism is that "ALL" is in the context of "YOU" which would exclude John himself (and all other churches that did not yet exist) as being one to whom God is patient if one were trying to use the extreme eisegetical model in Calvinism employed to get around "all" and "any".[/FONT]
[FONT="]NASB
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is [/FONT][FONT="]patient toward you[/FONT][FONT="], not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.[/FONT]
KJV
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of
us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is
longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
YLT
2 to be mindful of the sayings said before by the holy prophets, and of the command of
us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour,
9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is
long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,
Even worse in the King James -- since
"us" is defined as just "
the Apostles" -- and in theory
even Calvinism could not tolerate such a downsize..[FONT="]
(Thus “all” and “any” cannot be restricted to just “us apostles” since all the apostles were at that time already saved – obviously)[/FONT]
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of
us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
...
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to
us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[FONT="]Obviously the “any ol excuse for downsizing” model so often resorted to – does not work.[/FONT]
And in theory "nobody was supposed to notice".
in Christ,
Bob