Can you define "sinless" for us?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Original Sin??? #1
- Thread starter Winman
- Start date
- Status
so he wouldn't live eternally physically while being dead eternally spiritually
Amy your question is answered by yourself. Sin is the breaking of Gods law. One is not guilty until this is done. One doesn't consciously break a law they don't know. How many laws do you break asleep in bed?
Last edited by a moderator:
How is one made spiritually alive apart from Christ when the Bible explicitly states life is ONLY in Christ?
How many laws does a new born baby knowingly break?
Incorrect, Jesus has the ability to speak to the spiritually dead. And if Jesus can speak to the dead, then they can hear him.
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jesus said the hour is coming and NOW IS, when the dead (spiritually dead) shall hear his voice, and those that hear shall live.
The scriptures say the word of God is quick and powerful and able to pierce to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Do you deny that God has the power to speak to the spiritually dead?
2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
The scriptures warn that in the last days there will be men who have a form of godliness, but deny God's power.
convicted1
Guest
Correct , Jesus can talk to the dead and they are brought to life. However, no amount of gospel preaching changes a sinner's dead state unless He has first done His work. The gospel is foreign to them, has no place in them., they have no desire for it. God's power in their life has to take place first.
The gospel itself creates desire. Did not the prospect of eternal life draw, entice, and tempt you? It certainly got my attention.
The fact is, if Jesus can talk to the dead, then the dead CAN HEAR HIM. You Calvinists insist on monergism, but communication necessitates at least two persons. You cannot communicate by yourself.
You cannot tango by yourself Willis.
convicted1
Guest
Brother Wes, our relationship with Christ is likened to a marriage in many places. No marriage has one yes, but two. The "cowcatcher" is this; we will always say no unless He first changes our disposition. He does this by giving us a new heart, new eyes, new ears , etc. After He changes our disposition, our "want to", our desires from wanting nothing to do with Him to running to Him for His salvation, we then seek after Him. It's like the Song of Solomon "Have you seen Him in whom my soul loveth?"
convicted1
Guest
Another thing, Brother Wes, the gospel saves no one, it proclaims Christ, tells the good news, but only God saves. Just like faith doesn't save, but without faith and the gospel , no one can be saved.
The gospel is the very power God uses to save people. If you believe the gospel, you are saved.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
You cannot believe on Jesus unless you have heard the gospel, therefore you cannot be saved without the gospel.
The gospel is what enables a man to believe on Jesus.
convicted1
Guest
True, but the gospel preached to deafened ears has zero results.
What is worse your Pelagianism or Hyper Calvinism? Recently you almost debated a Hyper Calvinist but you did not.
Go read a book and let the adults debate.
Sometimes that is true. Some men listen, some men do not. But the word of God is powerful enough to speak to any man who will listen.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
'Quicken": bringing those who are spiritually dead to life! Ephesians 2:1ff. !:thumbsup::thumbsup:
If you read the whole Bible, and not the common proof texts for Calvinism, you would know this verse actually refutes Calvinism.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Why were these persons dead? They were dead in trespasses and sins. The wage of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Therefore you must sin BEFORE you die. Dying is the result of sinning.
See, Calvinism actually teaches the exact opposite of scripture. Calvinism teaches you are born dead, and this causes you to sin. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of scripture. Sin is not the result of being dead, death is the result of sinning.
To be quickened your sins must be forgiven.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Here Paul explains exactly how a person is quickened. A person is quickened when all their sins and trespasses are forgiven.
Again, Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of scripture. Calvinism teaches that a person must be quickened before they can believe and have their sins forgiven, but the scriptures teach that to be quickened means to have your sins and trespasses forgiven. Therefore you must first BELIEVE before you can be quickened.
Calvinism goes through the Bible and actually teaches the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scriptures say over and over again.
Do not be deceived by false doctrine.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Do you know when you suffered spiritual death Winman?
That is not what the Scripture says, Winman. It states they were quickened or madee spiritually alive while they were still dead in their sins! The same is taught in the passage from Ephesians.
Ephesians 2:1-5 NKJV
1.And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2. in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3. among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
The Apostle Paul is talking to believers. He is reminding them that WHILE they were dead in trespasses and sins God mede them spiritually alive!
You first.
I couldn't give you a date, but the first time I truly understood right and wrong before God and knowingly and willingly sinned I spiritually died. That is exactly what Paul describes in Romans 7:9;
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Paul is obviously describing when he learned the law as a young Jewish man. He said he would not have known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
It was when Paul learned the law that he was convicted as a sinner and spiritually died.
Everybody is different, but the Jews believed a person became accountable about puberty. I think this was about the right time for me also, and I received Jesus as my Saviour when I was ten years old. So obviously I understood sin and my responsibility before God to obey him at this age.
Well, you have to first be dead to be quickened. But Colossians 2:13 shows exactly what being quickened entails, you are quickened when all your sins and trespasses are forgiven. You cannot possibly be spiritually alive while you are still dead in all your sins. Therefore, you MUST believe and have all your sins and trespasses forgiven to be quickened or made spiritually alive.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status