Your readers note that you talk in circles unable to answer a couple of simple straightforward questions, that have been asked repeatedly of you.
Do you keep the law; all the law; all the time?
Can you answer that truthfully?
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“Keeping the Law”
- Thread starter NetChaplain
- Start date
Do you keep the law; all the law; all the time?
Can you answer that truthfully?
convicted1
Guest
We keep the Law, because the One who kept it blamelessly, lived it for us, died for us, and now lives within us. We keep the Law via Christ.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Indeed the New Covenant places the Law in the heart and mind for the saints according to Jer 31:31-33.
This is why Paul is so free to contrast to the case for the saints vs the lost in Romans 8.
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are [/FONT][FONT="]according to the flesh[/FONT][FONT="] set their minds on the things of the flesh[/FONT][FONT="], but those who [/FONT][FONT="]are according to the Spirit[/FONT][FONT="], the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law[/FONT][FONT="]of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Rev 14:12 the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
In 1John 2 the person that claims to know Christ and yet does not "keep His Commandments" is lying according to John.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
In Rom 3:31 Paul asks "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Bottom line here is that while I can't offer very much ranting -- I can offer the Word of God on this subject to be considered by the objective unbiased readers.
Those who read my posts notice that I am appealing to scripture for my response.
Because that is my version of "sola scriptura" testing of doctrine.
To each his own.
in Christ,
Bob
In 1John 2 the person that claims to know Christ and yet does not "keep His Commandments" is lying according to John.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
In Rom 3:31 Paul asks "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Bottom line here is that while I can't offer very much ranting -- I can offer the Word of God on this subject to be considered by the objective unbiased readers.
Those who read my posts notice that I am appealing to scripture for my response.
Because that is my version of "sola scriptura" testing of doctrine.
To each his own.
in Christ,
Bob
Scripture always has personal application.
Notice that the Bereans of the first century did not have a "copy and paste function."
It wasn't the Biblical method of sola scriptura according to Acts 17:11.
They searched the scriptures daily, with a ready mind to see whether these things were so. You don't do that.
If you did, you would be able to answer these questions:
Do you keep the law; all the law; all the time?
Can you answer that truthfully?
:thumbs::applause::thumbs:
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Rev 14:12 - the saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
convicted1
Guest
But do you keep the Law? It's a fair question to ask and expect an answer to. None of us can keep it, because if we could, then Christ had no need to come and die. Now.....
.....do you keep the Law?
.....do you keep the Law?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I would argue that I keep the Law in the same way that I am sure you would argue that you do not bow down to idols. I am not claiming to be sinless. i also do not claim that there is a sin "I must commit" or that Paul is lying when in Romans 8:6-8 he says that only the lost "cannot be in subjection to the Law of God" -- For as John says in Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
DHK has had this answer from me many times - but he is playing a "game" at the moment.
Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" argues the simple position stated above for keeping the Commandments of God - so this point is more than a little obvious even to many Baptists. Iconoclast and Biblicist are among those who do not choose to throw the "Baptist Confession of Faith" under a bus for example. So while I differ with them on many points - I think they do get some things right.
DHK is currently struggling with the notion that the answer to these texts is not some ad homimen retort to the one posting the text.
When I post these Bible texts - the point is that they should be accepted and taken seriously.
Rev 14:12 - the saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
If you or I were to say to one of our Catholic friends "I think the 2nd commandment against using idols and images in worship should be taken seriously as binding on the saints" we would not accept an any-ol-excuse response that was of the form "let's not talk about that text - just let me know if you are sinless otherwise I get to ignore any part of the Bible that does not fit my practice".
I think we can all see that point.
in Christ,
Bob
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First, your understanding of these texts is shallow; you don't know the real meaning of them, or simply take them out of their contexts and deliberately misinterpret them.
Second, you obviously don't know and don't want to know what the Confessions mean about keeping the law and the commandments. You also take what they say out of context. It is deliberate misrepresentation and slander.
Third, you don't know the real purpose behind the law, that is, why it was given, and even if told, you would reject it.
Fourth, and most importantly of all, you won't answer these questions, because as the Bible itself points out, you cannot keep the law; no man can!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
By contrast - the actual Bible says -
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?
in Christ,
Bob
Jesus' is 'representative law-keeping' for his Elect.
There is no single Law found in the Bible Jesus' keeping of, is not 'representative law-keeping' for his Elect ....
....BUT There is no law not Jesus' representative law-keeping whatsoever which Jesus' Law-keeping is representative of.
SO FORGET IT, Sunday for Jesus' Law-keeping for you; there no chance!
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There is no chance for me or you or anyone unless you are making a claim to deity.
Christ is God. He was incarnate deity, the sinless Son of man. When He came to this earth He kept the law perfectly. That is something that no man can do; that every man has failed to do. Yes, he is our example; but that doesn't give us the ability to keep the law. We can't do it. We are sinful creatures.
A claim of keeping the law is a claim to perfection.
A claim of keeping the law is a claim to "no need of a Savior."
If one has kept the law then why does he need a Savior?
The police fine and jail law-breakers, for whom the law is written.
God will punish lawbreakers (in hell); for whom the law is written.
Don't worry. If you have never broken the law, you have nothing to be afraid of--nothing except one thing--the law doesn't save.
Then you, Steaver explain the same to God, how you, breaking the law, is you, keeping the Law.
By the way, I have never encountered this Law in God's Word; it's completely your Law, you making, you keeping, you breaking it. Yet you demand it from others, but not from yourself.
That is a hell of an intricate way of accusing someone he's a hypocrite, simply.
I am not a SDA; I am an OSAS and TULIP believer; my spiritual meal is four course Calvinism.
So I can tell what Seventh-day Adventists teach better than they themselves seeing I grew up and was a SDA my first 21 years of life.
Here is what, and how Seventh-day Adventists believe – I am convinced seriously and honest, believe with all their heart and all their mind and all their strength—
1) There is no chance for me or you or anyone to keep the Law perfectly unless he is making a claim to deity.
2) Christ is God. He was incarnate deity, the sinless Son of man. When He came to this earth He kept the law perfectly. That is something that no man can do; that every man has failed to do. Yes, he is our example; but that doesn't give us the ability to keep the law. We can't do it. We are sinful creatures.
3) A claim of keeping the law is a claim to perfection.
4) A claim of keeping the law is a claim to "no need of a Savior."
5) If one has kept the law perfectly and does not transgress it constantly, then why does he need a Savior?
6) The police fine and jail law-breakers, for whom the law is written.
7) God will punish lawbreakers (in hell); for whom the law is written.
You get 4 point Calvinists, then you get 7 point Adventists.
Are you a 7 point Adventist?
PS
Don't worry. If you have never broken the law, you have nothing to be afraid of--nothing except one thing--the law doesn't save.
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I have nothing to explain, I never claimed to keep the Law for my salvation nor that I keep the Law because I am saved. The Law brought me to Christ, I live by the Spirit of Christ, the Law has no part in me. Bob is the one claiming to keep the Law, please pay attention to the conversation, you are bouncing in and not understanding the whole thread.
I have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
Do the saved in Christ have a new nature, and the Spirit within them, that BOTh desire to please and seve God now?
YES
can we do that perfectly though, by keeping law as God demands to?
NO WAY!
Those whose desire and direction is to follow God are from God, those who desire and bent is to still do same sinful acts and practices, with NO conviction/remorse/repenting not of god
THAT is the Apsotles point here!
Have you kept the 10 commandmentswell enough yet?