“Keeping the Law”

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

By contrast - the actual Bible says -


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?

in Christ,

Bob

[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Reading 1John 5 from verse 2 on is not the best thing to do. Trying to live 1John 5 from verse 2 only must be dismal and certainly will end up disastrous. God’s Word is a double edged sword, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit. 1John 5 verses 2 and 3 on their own is but the “spirit”—the “breath” of our physical life; but verses 1 and 4 have the “soul”—the “heart”—the engine-room and “power” that makes us breath and “DO” the will of GOD.
“Keep” is not the best rendering for ‘poiohmen’. We sons of men do not ‘keep’ God’s Law; “blessed is the SON OF MAN WHO claims the Law—lays hold on the Law, WHO KEEPS the Sabbath that it does not get polluted and KEEPS HANDS seeking from doing it evil.”
GOD—THE SON OF MAN—is LORD PROTECTOR of his Holy Day— “MY, Holy Day”—“The Lord’s Day”.
And thus any of the “his commandments”.
“Man”—“Whosoever BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Christ, is BORN of God; every one who LOVES God, had been born again OF GOD!”
Ah!
“BY THIS NOW WE KNOW!”
“We KNOW!”
“WE, know!”
BECAUSE …. “THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD—OUR FAITH!”
So, world, you can jump up and down and stick out your tongue at the born of God and scream for frustration and envy, “BY THIS WE KNOW that we love the (true) children of God when we love HIM and …. DO his commandments [ which are to love God supreme and the children of God like ourselves ]. For this, IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT, we, hold fast to the(se) commandments of God. For this IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT his commandments are not heavy.
Because whatsoever is born OF GOD, CONQUERS THE WORLD: and this – the love of God – is the victory that overcomes the worlds, even our FAITH.”

This is the worship of God in “spirit”, in “soul” and in “Truth”—“in CHRIST”.

Be sure to receive this retort in reprisal, <<the Bible itself points out, you cannot keep the law; no man can!>>

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

By contrast - the actual Bible says -


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?

in Christ,

Bob

Reading 1John 5 from verse 2 on is not the best thing to do. Trying to live 1John 5 from verse 2 only must be dismal and certainly will end up disastrous. God’s Word is a double edged sword, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit. 1John 5 verses 2 and 3 on their own is but the “spirit”—the “breath” of our physical life; but verses 1 and 4 have the “soul”—the “heart”—the engine-room and “power” that makes us breathe and “DO” the will of GOD.

“Keep” is not the best rendering for ‘poiohmen’.
We sons of men do not ‘keep’ God’s Law; “blessed is the SON OF MAN WHO claims the Law—lays hold on the Law, WHO KEEPS the Sabbath that it does not get polluted and KEEPS HANDS seeking from doing it evil.”
GOD—THE SON OF MAN—is LORD PROTECTOR of his Holy Day— “MY, Holy Day”—“The Lord’s Day”.

And thus is GOD, Lord Protector the Keeper of any of “his commandments”.
“Man”—“Whosoever BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Christ, is BORN of God; every one who LOVES God, had been born again OF GOD!”

Ah!

“BY THIS NOW WE KNOW!”
“We KNOW!”
“WE, know!”
BECAUSE ….

“THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD—OUR FAITH!”

So, world, you can jump up and down and stick your tongue out at the born of God and scream for frustration and envy, “BY THIS WE KNOW that we love the (true) children of God when we love HIM and …. DO his commandments [ which are to love God supreme and the children of God like ourselves ]. For this, IS THE LOVE OF GOD, that we hold fast to the(se) commandments of God. For this IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT his commandments are not heavy.
Because whatsoever is born OF GOD, CONQUERS THE WORLD: and this – THE LOVE OF GOD – is our faith, is the victory that overcomes the world.”

This is the worship of God in “spirit”, in “soul” and in “Truth”—“in CHRIST”.

Be sure to receive this retort in reprisal, <<the Bible itself points out, you cannot keep the law; no man can!>>

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?

Do the saved in Christ have a new nature, and the Spirit within them, that BOTh desire to please and seve God now?

YES

In Romans 7 Paul describes the "gap" the struggle of the new born saint contrasting the inner man desiring to serve the Law of God - and the outer man that walks in rebellion against the Word of God.

Then in Romans 8 - Paul describes the solution found in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it is only the lost that are helpless to actually obey God as Paul says in Romans 8.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?



In Romans 7 Paul describes the "gap" the struggle of the new born saint contrasting the inner man desiring to serve the Law of God - and the outer man that walks in rebellion against the Word of God.

Then in Romans 8 - Paul describes the solution found in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it is only the lost that are helpless to actually obey God as Paul says in Romans 8.

in Christ,

Bob

Which category do you then put yourself?
Lost?
Or, Do you keep the Law, all of it, all the time?
Which category are you in Bob?
You are the one that made the distinction.

 

[Yeshua1]

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?



In Romans 7 Paul describes the "gap" the struggle of the new born saint contrasting the inner man desiring to serve the Law of God - and the outer man that walks in rebellion against the Word of God.

Then in Romans 8 - Paul describes the solution found in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it is only the lost that are helpless to actually obey God as Paul says in Romans 8.

in Christ,

Bob

God forbid!

Apostle paul failed to live as he should AFTER being saved by grace of God, for he tried, like you, toplease and serve God by keeping the Law in his own might!

ONLY the Holy Spirit can grant us victorious living, as Christian who fail to submit to his empoweringand control still fail to stop sinning at times, or liev far below what God intended!

NEITHER saved/lost can keep the law and do what God desires by themselves, ONLY those who have continued to crucify their flesh and yield to the Spirit can do that!

 

[BobRyan]

ONLY the Holy Spirit can grant us victorious living, !

Now and then you do say something in line with actual scripture.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So when you do - I am happy to make a note of it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[NetChaplain]

It's often too easily forgotten concerning what Scripture says:

By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal 2:16). The giving of "the Law is good, holy and just," but the keeping of it at best was carnal, because of the dispensation at that time concerning the general assembly of Israel, to whom only it was given (but even now "taken away" from the Jew--Heb 10:9).

"Not after the law of a carnal commandment" (Heb 7:16); which was a carnal one, if we consider the persons to whom it belonged, the Israelites according to the flesh; it was incumbent upon, and might be performed by such who were only carnal; and it was performed by and for men that were in the flesh, or mortal.” JG

 

[BobRyan]

It's often too easily forgotten concerning what Scripture says:

By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal 2:16).

Indeed. In Romans 8:6-8 it is not the lost that are keeping the Law of God. According to Romans 8 they do not submit to the law of God "neither indeed CAN they".

So it keeping the Law is not a path for the lost - to become saved.

But that does not mean we get to ignore Romans 8:6-8 as it speaks to the case of the born-again Christian -- and not just the lost.

As Paul says regarding the saints "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

As John says - the saints "KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

In fact John argues that love for God and love for our fellow Christian is demonstrated in obedience to the Word of God as given in His Commandments.

Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[NetChaplain]

Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The commandments of God here are those contained in the Gospel of Christ, of that which He commands, because it couldn't refer to commandments contained in the Mosaic Law.

See ya tomorrow!

"And His commandments are not grievous; heavy, burdensome, and disagreeable; by which are meant, not so much the precepts of the moral law, which through the weakness of the flesh are hard to be kept, and cannot be perfectly fulfilled; though believers indeed, being freed from the rigorous exaction, curse, and condemnation of the law, delight in it after the inward man, and serve it cheerfully with their spirit; and still less the commands of the ceremonial law, which were now abolished, and were grievous to be borne.

"But rather those of faith in Christ, and love to the saints, 1 John 3:23; or it may be the ordinances of the Gospel, baptism, and the Lord's supper, with others, which though disagreeable to unregenerate persons, who do not care to be under the yoke of Christ, however easy and light it is, yet are not heavy and burdensome to regenerate ones; and especially when they have the love of God shed abroad in them, the presence of God with them, communion with Jesus Christ, and a supply of grace and strength from Him." JG

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course for those who want to circle back to the view of the Law that the lost have - Paul reminds us in Romans 8 what that is..

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So why keep circling back to the POV of the lost in your posts? What is the point?



In Romans 7 Paul describes the "gap" the struggle of the new born saint contrasting the inner man desiring to serve the Law of God - and the outer man that walks in rebellion against the Word of God.

Then in Romans 8 - Paul describes the solution found in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it is only the lost that are helpless to actually obey God as Paul says in Romans 8.

in Christ,

Bob

What you planned NOT to say empties what you do say of any semblance of TRUTH.

Roman 8 is a long chapter, and if I remember correctly it concludes with a last desperate appeal to God's grace and forgiving love. You make it sound like a powerful 'Spirit-filled' man who finally has won the battle against infinite evil and actually against all odds obeys God without fail or fault.

It's only very thinly veneered perfectionism, yours, Bob Ryan.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The commandments of God here are those contained in the Gospel of Christ, of that which He commands, because it couldn't refer to commandments contained in the Mosaic Law.

CORRECT! Which is exactly where you have no clue of what you are saying yourself!

YOU HAVE CUT THE LIFELINE YOURSELF!

 

[DHK]

Which category do you then put yourself?
Lost?
Or, Do you keep the Law, all of it, all the time?
Which category are you in Bob?
You are the one that made the distinction.

He never will answer this question. Post scripture, but not answer the question:
Do you keep the law, all of it, all the time?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The commandments of God here are those contained in the Gospel of Christ, of that which He commands, because it couldn't refer to commandments contained in the Mosaic Law.

Christ said that Moses did not make up scripture - but rather that what we find in the OT - in Exodus 20 in the TEN Commandments is what Christ in the Gospels calls "Word of God" - we both saw that in Mark 7.

And of course Christ and God the Father are in perfect agreement on that point - so I don't mind having people call the Words of Christ in Mark 7 "The commandments of Christ" where He quotes from the TEN Commandments and calls them the "WORD of God".

Even so Paul quotes "even further" in Eph 6 from the TEN Commandments than does Christ in Mark 7 - as we saw in Eph 6:1-3

God the Son and God the Father are not at war with each other as we see in Mark 7 and in Matt 5.

What is really interesting is that in Acts 21 we have the Mosaic law - the ceremonial law itself being the subject of dispute. Now here is where it can be very helpful to notice what the text says.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[NetChaplain]

I believe the commandments of God when referring to the OT was the Law for the Jews only, and in the NT, the Gospel for Christians, as Gill comments, for example:

"Who keep the commandments of God: and not the traditions of men: nor are the commands of the moral law of God so much designed, but rather the ordinances of the Gospel, the commands of God our Saviour, such as baptism and the Lord's supper; which were kept by these faithful ones, as they had been delivered, when they began now to be sadly corrupted by the antichristian party (Rev 12:17).

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Your continual posting of these verses simply shows your ability to take scripture out of context and your ignorance of the scripture here and its meaning.
First, why do you skip context, that is, not posting the first and fourth verses?

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1. The Scripture is speaking of Christ, and the believers relation to him.
2. The Scripture is speaking of those that are born again.
3. The Scripture is speaking of the fruit of those that are born again, not any requirements of those that are born again.
4. The commandments referred to are obviously the commandments of Christ, which are those referred to in the NT, not in the OT. They are different. It is not referring to "The Law," per se. Christ abolished the law on the cross, as he came to do.
5. Gal.2 teaches plainly that the law is for the lawless.
6. However, for us, it is a school teacher to lead us to Christ.

In the context of verse one and four, it is obvious that the Christian lives his life by faith, and by faith can overcome the world. He does not live his life by the dictates of the law.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your continual posting of these verses simply shows your ability to take scripture out of context and your ignorance of the scripture here and its meaning.
First, why do you skip context, that is, not posting the first and fourth verses?

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1. The Scripture is speaking of Christ, and the believers relation to him.
2. The Scripture is speaking of those that are born again.
3. The Scripture is speaking of the fruit of those that are born again, not any requirements of those that are born again.
4. The commandments referred to are obviously the commandments of Christ, which are those referred to in the NT, not in the OT. They are different. It is not referring to "The Law," per se. Christ abolished the law on the cross, as he came to do.
5. Gal.2 teaches plainly that the law is for the lawless.
6. However, for us, it is a school teacher to lead us to Christ.

In the context of verse one and four, it is obvious that the Christian lives his life by faith, and by faith can overcome the world. He does not live his life by the dictates of the law.

Apostle paul in Romans 7 describes all like BOB, striving to please God in the flesh, trying to keep the law, but ONLY Chapter 8 shows us that we now live by the Holy spirit, and His power provides us the means to actually live as we should before God!

Walk and abide in him, and he will supply us the enabling to walk in way worthy of our calling!

that was the problem under Old covenant, as man tried to kep law, as its good and perfect, but we were weak in the flesh, but now have be made alive in the Spirit to do that!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I believe the commandments of God when referring to the OT was the Law for the Jews only, and in the NT, the Gospel for Christians, as Gill comments, for example:

"Who keep the commandments of God: and not the traditions of men: nor are the commands of the moral law of God so much designed, but rather the ordinances of the Gospel, the commands of God our Saviour, such as baptism and the Lord's supper; which were kept by these faithful ones, as they had been delivered, when they began now to be sadly corrupted by the antichristian party (Rev 12:17).

Jesus DIED the Law of God; Jesus ROSE the Law of God: “This same Jesus whom ye crucified God raised ANOINTED AND LORD-COMMANDER—Christ and Lord”, “…. and God the day The Seventh Day from all his works RESTED.”

In Christ the Law AND laws of God every one and all together were: "nailed to the cross", and, "taken out of the way", and, "BLOTTED OUT".
The Law of God was crucified in Christ, and was raised in Christ and "was FULFILLED" and "MAGNIFIED”, "IN HIM".

"God blessed" no Law, or "hallowed" no Law, as "the day The Seventh Day God from all his works RESTED".

“God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake”, “the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath”. “The Sabbath was made”, “the Lord’s Day” by Christ having raised from the dead “In the Sabbath’s fulfilment”.
Christ “magnified” and “honoured God’s Holy Day” like none of His Laws or ordinances which God purposed and designed as an <<ordinance of the Gospel and command of God our Saviour>>.
“With regard to eating and drinking of Feast” of “the Lord's Supper” at “SABBATHS’ FEAST OF CHRIST’S OWN THE BODY …. let no man of the world judge you”.

 

[BobRyan]

Apostle paul in Romans 7 describes all like BOB, striving to please God in the flesh, trying to keep the law, but ONLY Chapter 8 shows us that we now live by the Holy spirit,

Romans 8:6-8 says only the lost cannot keep the Law of God - i thought you had declared war against Romans 8... Are you back in line with it now??

really??

in Christ,


Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4. The commandments referred to are obviously the commandments of Christ, which are those referred to in the NT, not in the OT. They are different. .

Totally false statement on your part- and we both know it.

As has been pointed out the perfect debunking of your made-up-claim is in Mark 7:6-13 and Eph 6:1-2.

In Mrk 7 Jesus quotes only a snippet from the 5th commandment.

But in Eph 6 Paul does NOT quote Jesus in Mark 7 -- He quotes Jesus as He thundered his TEN Commandments in Ex 20:12 - the Fifth commandment quoted in full in Eph 6 -- not limiting it to the snippet of Mark 7 as if the NT was deleting/downsizing the OT command of God the Son.

Then Paul says not only is this binding but it is 'The FIRST commandment with a promise".

Which only works in the context of the TEN COMMANDMENTS as the UNIT that God declares it to be in the actual Bible.

Each time you resort to making stuff up to make a point - it simply gets pointed out. Why keep doing it??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Which is why I keep pointing out what John says in 1John 5.

Totally false statement on your part- and we both know it.

I don't need your condescension and your inference that I have lied is totally unwarranted.
"We both know it!" I don't post things that I don't believe. I am not in agreement with you, and I don't believe as you do, so don't you dare say that "I 'know' as you do." You know falsely. I know truly. You believe in the the error of the SDA; I believe in the truth of the Word. We both don't know it.
Only one of us knows the truth; therefore there is disagreement.

As has been pointed out the perfect debunking of your made-up-claim is in Mark 7:6-13 and Eph 6:1-2.

You have never debunked my claims. You have never been able to show me one verse in the NT that commands Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath--NEVER!

In Mrk 7 Jesus quotes only a snippet from the 5th commandment.

But in Eph 6 Paul does NOT quote Jesus in Mark 7 -- He quotes Jesus as He thundered his TEN Commandments in Ex 20:12 - the Fifth commandment quoted in full in Eph 6 -- not limiting it to the snippet of Mark 7 as if the NT was deleting/downsizing the OT command of God the Son.

Then Paul says not only is this binding but it is 'The FIRST commandment with a promise".

Which only works in the context of the TEN COMMANDMENTS as the UNIT that God declares it to be in the actual Bible.

And yet you fail to look at Exodus 31, which explains why the Sabbath was put in place. It is a sign of the covenant between Jehovah and Israel and their generations forever. It was never given to the Gentile.
You have no answer for this passage in Exodus 31, do you?

Each time you resort to making stuff up to make a point - it simply gets pointed out. Why keep doing it??

I point you to Scripture; you keep ignoring it.