Pub Night Fellowship

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I often go out for coffee (or tea) at the ubiquitous Canadian doughnut place, Tim Horton's, and solve the world's problems using the Word of God.
But honestly, I can't picture ever opening up a Bible in a pub or bar. It is just the wrong atmosphere; the wrong people; the wrong crowd.

Really? Maybe your the wrong guy for the job.

 

[steaver]

I go in with only pure motives

And that leads us back to the bible for whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report;

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

(I believe your position was that people go into bars & pubs to get drunk, correct)

I believe I made some distinctions. I did say the bars were created for the drunkards, this does not mean that each and every time the drunkard goes to the bar he gets drunk, but he does like to drink and get drunk when time or situation permits. Same goes for the moonshiners, they don't get drunk all the time, but they like to when possible and they provide the means by which multitudes may have opportunity to indulge. There is another problem with the bars, they are providing the alcohol for the drunkard. Scripture is clear about this being a no no. If I participate as a consumer then I am giving the signal that I approve of the bars providing for the drunkards a place to consume their drug of choice.

Now I'm curious, why is that another subject?

This type of Christian is not going there to do as they do, but rather is going there to help them see their folly.

 

[DHK]

Really? Maybe your the wrong guy for the job.

What's the job?
In my early Christian life I had a Charismatic christian (an acquaintance) explain to me how God gave him a job. He explained to me how this was definitely of God, for God opens doors that no man shuts and shuts doors that no man opens. Therefore he knew that this was definitely of God. After some enthusiastic and jubilant explaining of how this was of God, I finally interrupted him and asked him: So, what is this job that God has given to you?
He replied: "I am a bartender."

I explained that God didn't give you that job.
God doesn't give work to Christians that cause others to sin and cause them to get drunk. There is a curse about that:

Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, to thee that addest thy venom, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
--It was the wrong job; the wrong work! Look for another.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

So why dont you drop the other shoe & be done with it?

And do you visit the fatherless & widows?

There is another problem with the bars, they are providing the alcohol for the drunkard. Scripture is clear about this being a no no. If I participate as a consumer then I am giving the signal that I approve of the bars providing for the drunkards a place to consume their drug of choice.

Please provide scripture

This type of Christian is not going there to do as they do, but rather is going there to help them see their folly.

Or to minister to them, or to get a Guinness & a burger. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What's the job?
In my early Christian life I had a Charismatic christian (an acquaintance) explain to me how God gave him a job. He explained to me how this was definitely of God, for God opens doors that no man shuts and shuts doors that no man opens. Therefore he knew that this was definitely of God. After some enthusiastic and jubilant explaining of how this was of God, I finally interrupted him and asked him: So, what is this job that God has given to you?
He replied: "I am a bartender."

I explained that God didn't give you that job.
God doesn't give work to Christians that cause others to sin and cause them to get drunk. There is a curse about that:

Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, to thee that addest thy venom, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
--It was the wrong job; the wrong work! Look for another.

Sooooo..... he went outa work on your advise & council? Did you at least try to help him get a better job or did you just throw scripture at him?

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Or to minister to them, or to get a Guinness & a burger. :laugh:

And that's the point. Most (if not all) pubs, taverns, etc. are simply restuarants where alcohol is served. (Here, you can't even smoke in them either.) I don't know of a single place that is just a bar without food -- doesn't exist here -- especially since these places depend on food to keep them in business.

So, if I'm with friends in such a place, some may have a Guinness while others may have a lemonade with their burger. Personally, I prefer Harp. Bottom line, no one cares. And I don't know anyone who goes there to get drunk.

 

[steaver]

If one establishment is evil, just by virtue of offering the opportunity to overindulge, then so is the other.

If you believe a bar is evil and sinful, simply because they offer an opportunity to indulge in drunkenness,
Then you must also agree that a church is evil and sinful, because they offer an opportunity to indulge in gluttony

But we have one issue with this analogy; does God say the church is evil for providing food for people?

On the other hand, would it be evil to provide alcohol to the drunkard?

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" (Matt18:7) - This would cover all offences/sins.

And I'm not so sure a person is considered by God to be a glutton because they are considered "overweight" by society. I don't recall Scripture which states anything about "fat" people being gluttons. The glutton is the one who eats with selfishness, whether they be "fat" or not, having no regard for those around them who may be hungry and without.

If a church has a fellowship and meal and all are stuffed, there is no sin. If some are stuffed and some have gone without, then there is sin.

Churches serving food and a Bar serving alcohol are not a comparable analogy.

 

[DHK]

And that's the point. Most (if not all) pubs, taverns, etc. are simply restuarants where alcohol is served. (Here, you can't even smoke in them either.) I don't know of a single place that is just a bar without food -- doesn't exist here -- especially since these places depend on food to keep them in business.

So, if I'm with friends in such a place, some may have a Guinness while others may have a lemonade with their burger. Personally, I prefer Harp. Bottom line, no one cares. And I don't know anyone who goes there to get drunk.

This is not true.
What is true that a place like Pizza Hut is licensed to serve beer but still has a family style reputation.

There are places set up where no one can enter unless they are 18+. It is drinking that is the primary reason, not pizza, that the establishment has in mind.
There are many family restaurants that are licensed. Usually the licensed part is sectioned off.
There are bars and pubs that are exclusively (by their definition, bars and pubs). They exist for the purpose of serving alcohol, not food. People get drunk there on a regular basis (unlike Pizza Hut, etc.).

You choose a place by its reputation.
You can go downtown to a bar and see on a regular basis people being knifed, bullets being sprayed, narcotics being sold, the sex trade in full operation, etc. Usually it happens near or in bars. (not the Pizza Hut).
I hope you get the point.

 

[DHK]

The name of each saloon is bar; the most fitting name by far
A bar to heaven, a door to hell; whoever named it, named it well

A bar to amenities and wealth; a door to want and broken health
A bar to honor, pride, and fame; a door to grief, sin and shame

A bar to hope a bar to prayer; a door to darkness and despair
A bar to honor and useful life; a door to brawling and sinful strife

A bar to all that's true and brave; a door to every drunkards grave
A bar to joy to home impart; a door to tears and aching heart

A bar to worthy human use; a door to other drugs of abuse
A bar to heaven, a door to hell; He who named it, named it well

The Saloon is sometimes called a Bar,
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well...

A Bar to manliness and wealth
A door to want and broken health

A Bar to honor, pride, and fame
A door to grief and sin and shame

A Bar to hope, a Bar to prayer
A door to darkness and despair

A Bar to honored useful life
A door to brawling, senseless strife

A Bar to all that's true and brave
A door to every drunkard's grave

A Bar to joys that home imparts
A door to tears and aching hearts

A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well!
written by a lifer in Joliet Prison

 

[saturneptune]

This is not true.
What is true that a place like Pizza Hut is licensed to serve beer but still has a family style reputation.

There are places set up where no one can enter unless they are 18+. It is drinking that is the primary reason, not pizza, that the establishment has in mind.
There are many family restaurants that are licensed. Usually the licensed part is sectioned off.
There are bars and pubs that are exclusively (by their definition, bars and pubs). They exist for the purpose of serving alcohol, not food. People get drunk there on a regular basis (unlike Pizza Hut, etc.).

You choose a place by its reputation.
You can go downtown to a bar and see on a regular basis people being knifed, bullets being sprayed, narcotics being sold, the sex trade in full operation, etc. Usually it happens near or in bars. (not the Pizza Hut).
I hope you get the point.

Where on earth does a jurisdiction allow an 18 yo to drink beer. In Kentucky, it is either 21 or not at all depending on the county. Also, your premise that folks go to restaurants for beer and not the food does not match everyday life. So many restaurants serve beer and alcohol that it is impossible to go to a restaurant without selling alcohol unless one wants to go to McDonalds. As far as establishments that are pure bars, they are few and far between. You must live in a different culture than here.

 

[DHK]

As far as establishments that are pure bars, they are few and far between. You must live in a different culture than here.

I doubt if the culture is that much different. People are people.
When I went to Bible College, Dr. Cedarholm used to say: In the state of Wisconsin there are more bars than there are Baptist churches. He wasn't speaking of established restaurants.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This is not true.
What is true that a place like Pizza Hut is licensed to serve beer but still has a family style reputation.

There are places set up where no one can enter unless they are 18+. It is drinking that is the primary reason, not pizza, that the establishment has in mind.
There are many family restaurants that are licensed. Usually the licensed part is sectioned off.
There are bars and pubs that are exclusively (by their definition, bars and pubs). They exist for the purpose of serving alcohol, not food. People get drunk there on a regular basis (unlike Pizza Hut, etc.).

You choose a place by its reputation.
You can go downtown to a bar and see on a regular basis people being knifed, bullets being sprayed, narcotics being sold, the sex trade in full operation, etc. Usually it happens near or in bars. (not the Pizza Hut).
I hope you get the point.

Yea but nobody is even discussing places like that. There are strip joints too ...... now I wonder what they are going in there for I wonder :smilewinkgrin:

Nope, for the sake of this conversation, we are discussing establishments that serve both food & beverages (could be alcohol or could be soda, tea, coffee etc). I often take my wife to a family run Irish pub in an upscale street in an upscale town in Northern NJ. The people are pleasant & the owner strictly observes the clientèle that are drinking & he will cut you off when he thinks you've had enough. Thats cause he doesnt want riotous drunks in his place & because he could get into trouble with both the community & the authorities if he doesnt keep a lid on it. BTW, this man gives back a ton to his community (food, clothing, shelter, jobs etc)

There is no reason to take this conversation to the bottom.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And that's the point. Most (if not all) pubs, taverns, etc. are simply restuarants where alcohol is served. (Here, you can't even smoke in them either.) I don't know of a single place that is just a bar without food -- doesn't exist here -- especially since these places depend on food to keep them in business.

So, if I'm with friends in such a place, some may have a Guinness while others may have a lemonade with their burger. Personally, I prefer Harp. Bottom line, no one cares. And I don't know anyone who goes there to get drunk.

Harp isnt bad.....I prefer the Guinness Stout on draft though. especially with a good roast & potatoes....and nothing wrong with a burger & fries now and again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The name of each saloon is bar; the most fitting name by far
A bar to heaven, a door to hell; whoever named it, named it well

A bar to amenities and wealth; a door to want and broken health
A bar to honor, pride, and fame; a door to grief, sin and shame

A bar to hope a bar to prayer; a door to darkness and despair
A bar to honor and useful life; a door to brawling and sinful strife

A bar to all that's true and brave; a door to every drunkards grave
A bar to joy to home impart; a door to tears and aching heart

A bar to worthy human use; a door to other drugs of abuse
A bar to heaven, a door to hell; He who named it, named it well

The Saloon is sometimes called a Bar,
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well...

A Bar to manliness and wealth
A door to want and broken health

A Bar to honor, pride, and fame
A door to grief and sin and shame

A Bar to hope, a Bar to prayer
A door to darkness and despair

A Bar to honored useful life
A door to brawling, senseless strife

A Bar to all that's true and brave
A door to every drunkard's grave

A Bar to joys that home imparts
A door to tears and aching hearts

A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well!
written by a lifer in Joliet Prison

Ohhhhhh tooooooooo much. Right to the basement.

 

[DHK]

There is no reason to take this conversation to the bottom.

It is not taking the conversation to the bottom; it is perception. When I was in my second year of secular college, as a young Christian, living in a small town there were only two places to go to. One was a truck stop that would serve a hearty meal with coffee, but was not licensed. It was near a gas station and the truckers filled up there. But half a mile down the hill was a "bar." There were a number of tables there and an actual bar where most would order a beer, but a few other drinks were available as well of course. I suppose one could get a sandwich or burger if they wanted. But it was a place to have a beer. It was the place where the locals went to get drunk. It was a bar in every sense of the word. That is where you would go to get drink and get drunk.

It was a small town with only two options. Those options were in stark contrast to each other. The one I labeled as a bar, the other as a cafe or diner. To open a Bible in the bar would be absurd and laughable. You would be scorned. To do so in a diner, when it is not busy, would not be anyone else's business and not be frowned upon. I hope you see the difference. If you use the word "bar" or "pub" it has a meaning of alcoholic beverages being the primary, if not the sole purpose of the establishment.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is not taking the conversation to the bottom; it is perception. When I was in my second year of secular college, as a young Christian, living in a small town there were only two places to go to. One was a truck stop that would serve a hearty meal with coffee, but was not licensed. It was near a gas station and the truckers filled up there. But half a mile down the hill was a "bar." There were a number of tables there and an actual bar where most would order a beer, but a few other drinks were available as well of course. I suppose one could get a sandwich or burger if they wanted. But it was a place to have a beer. It was the place where the locals went to get drunk. It was a bar in every sense of the word. That is where you would go to get drink and get drunk.

It was a small town with only two options. Those options were in stark contrast to each other. The one I labeled as a bar, the other as a cafe or diner. To open a Bible in the bar would be absurd and laughable. You would be scorned. To do so in a diner, when it is not busy, would not be anyone else's business and not be frowned upon. I hope you see the difference. If you use the word "bar" or "pub" it has a meaning of alcoholic beverages being the primary, if not the sole purpose of the establishment.

Perceptions are real similar to opinions.......and you know what they say about them also. BTW, I have opened my Bible in a bar & nobody laughed nor was I scorned......but I did bring a guy outa his drinking lifestyle & he went back to both his church & to his wife. Absurd......for you maybe but not for me.

 

[DHK]

Perceptions are real similar to opinions.......and you know what they say about them also. BTW, I have opened my Bible in a bar & nobody laughed nor was I scorned......but I did bring a guy outa his drinking lifestyle & he went back to both his church & to his wife. Absurd......for you maybe but not for me.

I don't drink at all; never have.
So let me carry on. As I mentioned that was a small town, and it was my last year of college--a small secular college. I lived in a dorm where each student had one room-mate. Mine went down to the pub quite often. And fairly often he would come back drunk, and I mean really drunk. He vomited
all over my shoes, books, and other things, stunk up the room, and caused me to be noxious. I have had my fair share of experiences with those that drink.

 

[steaver]

I doubt if the culture is that much different. People are people.
When I went to Bible College, Dr. Cedarholm used to say: In the state of Wisconsin there are more bars than there are Baptist churches. He wasn't speaking of established restaurants.

We have a ton of bars here in Pa. Most all of them serve a burger here or there, but their primary reason for existing is the alcohol, not serving families a meal.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't drink at all; never have.
So let me carry on. As I mentioned that was a small town, and it was my last year of college--a small secular college. I lived in a dorm where each student had one room-mate. Mine went down to the pub quite often. And fairly often he would come back drunk, and I mean really drunk. He vomited
all over my shoes, books, and other things, stunk up the room, and caused me to be noxious. I have had my fair share of experiences with those that drink.

Haven't we all. So I can understand how you would not allow that to become something that you make contact with. However I view it differently. I view these people as lost & in need of a Savior. My brother was a lost drunk until he was saved. He became an IFB Pastor. My wife was lost & so drank to deaden the pain & now she is a believer & doesn't drink. She is the one who encourages me to go in and speak to the lost in bars & pubs. The Pub owner......lets call him Mac, he would love me to conduct a bible study in the pub. Some of the finest people I know are AA members & Recovering Alcoholics......including the Union Steel Workers ..... they always bring up Christ & they are practically all ex alcoholics. So you see, I am very content discussing Christ with these men & women. Only there are stigmas attached to having been an alcoholic.......allot of shame and guilt heaped on by those who just relegate them to the garbage heap & thats why they go to AA.... to escape the negative judgment & stay anonymous.

DHK, they are all around us. Prohibition......yea, been there & done that & it didn't work. And its not coming back any time soon. But Christ, now He is here to stay & will provide the healing medication necessary ...... they just don't know it. Personally, I am not ashamed of Him, I love Him in fact & I don't care who knows.

Matthew 11:28-30

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have a ton of bars here in Pa. Most all of them serve a burger here or there, but their primary reason for existing is the alcohol, not serving families a meal.

Have you been to Old Forge.....outside of Scranton?