Featured "Di" vs. "Tri"

Winman and Convicted1,
thanks for the appreciation, and the kind words. I have spent a considerable amount of time on this issue, but not simply to settle this issue alone.

I believe this di/tri issue also relates to sin and righteousness as it concerns each "aspect" of a man. It relates to how sin entered the world because of Adam, what does scripture mean with "new creation", regeneration, cleansing, forgiveness, being sealed by the Holy Spirit, etc.

Also, it could possibly relate to how man is created in the image of God. Trichotomists use that as support for their position. I'll give my thoughts on this issue further along in this post.

Quite a few years ago, I became really curious about an issue. If the bible teaches a distinction between soul/spirit/body at the beginning of life, and the same distinction at the end of life, then is it possible that there is a distinction in certain aspects of a man's time between entry and exit?

I found that many disagreements through church history concerning Original Sin, Traducianism vs. Creationism (as it relates to the human soul or spirit), the biblical passages which seem to give conflicting statements regarding forgiveness, justification, etc, can be reconciled through a proper understanding of our metaphysical makeup (nature or natures).

How our "natures" (flesh and spirit) relate to sin and righteousness, was at the forefront of NT thought, too - In the fight against Gnosticism. Understanding how Gnostics thought, compared to what the bible speaks to the issue, makes it very easy to see what attracted Gnostics to Christianity, and/or visa versa.

Hades (Greek) and Sheol (Hebrew) are simply: The Place of the Dead.
The place associated with fire is Gehenna.
The bible doesn't name any place as Hell, but English translations seem to

I think it would be proper to refer to either place as hell, because people in either place are/will be in utter ruin and despair. However, I used Hell in referring to the Lake of Fire, contrasted against Hades, because that is the most common way Hell is understood.

I was trying to avoid a potential backlash of people accusing me of denying the Lake of Fire, which they typically call "denying the reality of Hell"

I didn't mean to confuse anything, and I see nothing wrong with calling Hades "hell"
Just as I see nothing wrong with calling the Lake of Fire "hell"

I don't believe that Adam was made in the image of God. The text is generally cited as Genesis 1:26-27. But, I don't believe those two verses can properly be understood without verses 28-31.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.

31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. )NASB)


In verse 26, when God says "Let us make man", he did not mean Adam. Verse 27 says "God created man...male and female He created them." I believe "mankind" is a better fit, which is the way the NIV words it. Also, I have noticed (in the NASB) the use of three closely related identifiers relating to Adam and Eve:
Adam is The Man
Eve is The Woman
Together, they are Man

But, in the next verse after God created them male and female, He said to them "Be fruitful and multiply. God set procreation in place as part of His creation of "man". This is all mentioned together in the context of the sixth day of creation (verse 31).

So the whole sum of the created Image of God was not found in Adam, it was found in Adam, Eve, and their offspring. And, just as God is not three separate beings, He did not create three separate beings out of dust. God brought Eve "out of man", which is what the name means. Then, from Adam and the one taken from his side, came the child.

So, in my estimation, the image of God is the family structure.

I am also fully aware that 1Corinthians 11:7 does not seem to confirm this. I am still studying that passage and how it relates to Genesis 1. It is quite possible that I am off the mark, but I believe this is the best fit with the overall issue of understanding our metaphysical makeup.

Some might say I'm looking for a way to spin 1Cor 11:7 in favor of my view. Perhaps, as I believe we are all susceptible to that. I don't believe that is my conscious ambition. Perhaps subconsciously, though.


I don't know if you've read the GotQuestions pages that Iconoclast has given links to. They are pretty good starters - bite sized introductions, for the most part. Like I said, I think the flaw of each is thinking of the soul as part of "what" man is, instead of "who" man is

 

I don't know about 'neither camp' as I know some who do deny three parts.

That said Scripture (Hebrews 4:12) clearly makes a distinction between the soul and spirit using the illustration of fleshly joints and marrow as an supportive example. I'll stick with the Word here on this over arguments and other opinions unless someone can prove from Scripture otherwise. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Dead spirit, dead in trespasses and sins, only means dead to God, in my humble opinion of course. Body and spirit of the lost will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

 

Does it really matter? I cannot see how!

 

Important?

I'm in agreement.

Not that this shouldn't be discussed if one is interested. "Theology" literally means 'Study of God'; any way we mortals can get more familiar with God is proper and makes us a bit more suited to serving and living in His Kingdom. But in this case, I don't think knowing the distinction will change my attitude or relationship with God to any extent.

Which probably means when someone points it out to me, it will change me. :forehead slap:

James, I really like your postings. I want to discuss some of the side issues, but I don't want to derail this thread. Perhaps I'll start another.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

The Greek names the soul and spirit as two distinctions. I don't see the struggle here. These are obviously differentiated, divided by the Word, compared to joints and marrow which are also differing elements. Have you looked up the two distinct Greek terms and their meanings?

 

I understand, but obviously the Godhead made a determinable distinction between soul and spirit and it is our duty to dig into this deeper at some point. Admittedly I have not as of yet, but I do see the Word showing us a specific separation between soul/spirit.

 

Goodness I hope I'm not being herein accused of making this topic salvific in nature. I apologize, all I've intended was to show Scripture distinguishes between soul and spirit concerning man.

 

Hello P4T,

This is a good discussion. Both groups need to appeal to all the verses so,
Let's take a look at Hebrews 4;12
In discussing the power and efficacy of the word of God,The writer points out this truth by using two distinct examples.
Two things that are normally inseparable ,are able to be divided by the word of God....in other words...

joints{bones in the physical body} and marrow{the inside of the bones} normally stay together...but they are able to be divided in this illustration,

then the spirit/soul....normally as C1 said are intertwined are able to be divided apart....so the Di is able to appeal to this text also.

 

Here is a post from someone {patrick} having a discussion on this...he offers his view which offers on this topic-

and again;

 

here are some more;

http://andycontramundum.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-trichotomy-is-wrong-biblical.html

http://scripturethoughts.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/body-soul-and-spirit-trichotomy-or-dichotomy/

http://www.monergism.com/topics/anthropology/trichotomy-vs-dichotomy

 

Pink offers a tri view;
For the Word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." It should be evident that the first thing emphasized here is that Christianity consists not so much of external conduct, as the place which the Word of God has within us. The Word of God "piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit" is the effect which it produces, under the application of the Lord, when a sinner is regenerated. Man is a tripartite being, consisting of spirit and soul and body. This, we believe, is the first and deepest meaning of Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness." God Himself is a Trinity in Unity, and such He made man to be.

The "spirit" is the highest part of man, being the seat of God-consciousness. The "soul" is the ego, the individual himself, and is the seat of self-consciousness; man has a "spirit," but he is "a living soul." The "body" is his house or tabernacle, being the seat of sense-consciousness. In the day that man first sinned, he died spiritually. But in Scripture "death" never means extinction of being; instead, it always signifies separation (see Luke 15:24). The nature of man’s spiritual "death" is intimated in Ephesians 4:18, "alienated from the life of God." When Adam disobeyed his Maker, he became a fallen creature, separated from God. The first effect of this was that his "spirit" no longer functioned separately, it was no more in communion with God. His spirit fell to the level of his soul.

The "soul" is the seat of the emotions (1 Sam. 18:1, Judges 10:16, Gen. 42:21, etc.). It is that part of our nature which stirs into exercise the "lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life." The unregenerate man is termed "the soulical man" (1 Cor. 2:14), the Greek word there being the adjectival form of "psyche" or "soul." That is to say, the unregenerate man is entirely dominated by his soul, his lusts, his desires, his emotions. Spiritual considerations have no weight with him whatsoever, for he is "alienated from the life of God." True, he has a "spirit," and by means of it he is capable of perceiving all around him the evidences of the "eternal power and godhead" of the Creator (Rom. 1:20). It is the "candle of the Lord" (Prov. 20:27) within him; yet has it, because of the fall, no communion with God. Now at regeneration there is, literally, a "dividing asunder of soul and spirit." The spirit is restored to communion with God, made enrapport with Him, "reconciled." The spirit is raised from its immersion in the soul, and once more functions separately: "For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit" (Rom. 1:9); "my spirit prayeth" (1 Cor. 14:14) etc.

 

here is John Owen: