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Featured What is "good" in God's sight?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by The Biblicist, Feb 5, 2014.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Let me make this clear to our readers becuase you are intentionally trying to misrepresent our conversation by the cherry selection of posts you have picked which really do not have anything to do with our disagreement.

    You should have listed the posts in the following order if you want to rightly represent the true order of our conversation without skewing it:

    1. Post #85

    So, do you believe that our broken humiliation, by which we cry out to God to rescue us, trusting only in Him because we have no other hope, is a 'meritorious work of righteousness?' - Skandelon

    2. Post #89

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Skandelon
    So, do you believe that our broken humiliation, by which we cry out to God to rescue us, trusting only in Him because we have no other hope, is a 'meritorious work of righteousness?'

    You can't be serious??? Do you understand that little of the Calvinistic position to ask such a question??? We believe that "repentance" is inseparable from "faith" and both are fruits of regeneration and you know that. So obviously, we do not believe that repentance is a "meritorious work of righteousness." - The Biblicist

    3. Post#91

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Biblicist
    You can't be serious??? Do you understand that little of the Calvinistic position to ask such a question??? We believe that "repentance" is inseparable from "faith" and both are fruits of regeneration and you know that. So obviously, we do not believe that repentance is a "meritorious work of righteousness."

    Ok, allow me to reword that...are you under the impression that repentance done as a free responsible act (as in our system) somehow merits or earns forgiveness and eternal life? If so, why? On what basis do you draw that conclusion? - Skandelon


    NOTE: Note that Skandelon's requrest to "allow me to reword that" has nothing to do with our argument over "supposition" versus what I "believe" but over an entirely different subject. We had not even entered into any disagreement over whether he asked for me to respond according to his "supposition" or according to what I "believe" yet. However, in Skandelon's order of posts he makes it look like he is asking "allow me to reword" in regard to our disagreement about "supposition" verus "belief" WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT DISGREEMENT OCCURRED LATER AFTER THIS POST. However, he is taking this earlier post and attempting to make it look that this was his request DURING our argument whether he had asked me to respond according to what I "believe" or according to the "supposition" that his view was correct. Pure dishonesty in the arrangement of this post to infer that idea!

    If you can't understand what I am saying, then let me put it this way. He is taking a post PREVIOUS to our argument and making it look like it was his request DURING our argument over "supposition" versus "belief" thus making it appear that I was not even charitable enough to allow him to correct his wording but intentionally attempt to misrepresent and mischarge him. He is intentionally doing this and thus again being openly dishonest.
     
    #161 The Biblicist, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, irrefutable Biblical evidence has been given to show that man is by nature a sinner and he can do nothing good as nothing "clean" can come out of an "unclean" heart just as Jesus said in Matthew 7:16-17; 12:33-35. It is irrefutable because my distractors have nowhere to go and so must reduce the conversation to personal attacks rather than Biblical interpretation.
     
    #162 The Biblicist, Feb 11, 2014
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    There are numerous discussions going at once and maybe you felt that you were responding to one line of arguments while I felt I was responding to another, who knows? But a simple re-read reveals very clearly that all the discussions up to that point in the thread melded into one key point (at least that is the way I was reading it)...below are the posts where the real contention started:

    You had said, "Since your system is not Biblical but antibiblical in regard to salvation, then that kind of repentance would be Biblically termed "worldly sorrow" and is of the flesh - 2 Cor. 7:10"

    See, you are talking about OUR SYSTEM. You are addressing what you believe are OUR PRESUMPTIONS about repentance. But you really straw-manning us because you were NOT accepting our actual suppositions....which is why I said...

    You replied saying...
    That is when I brought up the 'supposition' comment because I was attempting to reflect back on your straw man above..
    You then replied to another point in the thread but it was dealing with the same topic of repentance which is why I thought we were still on the same line of debate, apparently you weren't...

    This lead to my rebuttal about OUR view of humiliation and repentance and then the 'rewording' of that statement.

    So, it was clearly a misunderstanding as I was following one line of discussion and you another...both of which were about humility and repentance. So for you to accuse me of intentional dishonesty is absurd. That is what is making me leave. I was just as frustrated with you and your unwillingness to stay on my line of discussion as you were with me, but did I infer you were a liar and start saying things like...

    Now, if you can stop presuming the worse about people and try to 'work with others' and not make things so personal then maybe, just maybe we won't have to go through all this crud in order to have a decent discussion!!!
     
    #163 Skandelon, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2014
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Ok, let's start over... Try this...

    Suppose, just for sake of argument that the non-Calvinistic perspective is accurate and men are responsible (response-abled) and free to respond to God's gracious appeal to be reconciled. Here is a question for consideration:

    Do you believe that a man who 'freely' (of his own RESPONSE to God's gracious revelation) humbles himself and asks for forgiveness deserves to be forgiven and to spend eternity with God in heaven? In other words, do you think the free agent earns or deserves or merits his forgiveness and salvation simply on the basis of his freely requesting it?

    If someone killed your entire family and then felt remorse and humbly approached you to ask for forgiveness of his own accord, and you decided not only to forgive him but you gave him everything you owned too, would you believe that he deserved or earned that from you simply because of his remorse and request? I ask because some Calvinists seem to think that man's humiliation in asking of forgiveness somehow merits or earns what God does for us simply because we are free to ask or refrain from asking.
     
    #164 Skandelon, Feb 11, 2014
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    No feelings are necessary as your request to let you reword had nothing at all to do with our LATER discussion on suppositional versus my own belief - period!

    It is true that we were on the way to entering into that debate but had not yet reached it.
     
    #165 The Biblicist, Feb 11, 2014
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    YOu are asking me to entertain a supposition that REQUIRES ME to repudiate all that I believe in regard to the fallen human nature IN ORDER to even entertain that supposition. Since that is the prerequisite to entertain this supposition, then of course you are correct as there can be no other logical outcome.
     
    #166 The Biblicist, Feb 11, 2014
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    For it to be as Skan sees it being, Billy graham would hold crusades in a cementary, and dead bodies would rise up to acceptjesus!

    How can those spiritually dead bring themselves back to spiritual life?
     
    #167 Yeshua1, Feb 11, 2014
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
    #168 Squire Robertsson, Feb 13, 2014
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