How did Jesus Interact with Sinners?

[Reformed]

What's really sad is that Christians have become desensitized to more "subtle" sins like gossiping, gluttony, pride, jealousy and such, all the while making mountains out of only a couple of pet peeve sins.

I agree that many Christians don't give a hoot about abortion, or homosexuality. But the failings of those warped people in no way gives us cause to elevate two or three sins higher than others (including our own).

And it doesn't give us the right to embrace a "lesser" sinner while rejecting others with what we perceive as greater sin.

Anyone who tries to categorize sin into varying degrees ought to be ashamed of themselves.

James,

All sin is sufficient to condemn (Rom. 3:23; 6;23a), but not all sins are the same. There is a reason why God rained fire and brimstone on Sodom (Gen. 19). There is a reason that God brings physical affliction against homosexuals (Rom. 1). There is reason why God bound "angels who did not keep their own domain" (Jude 1). There is a reason why some who engage in sexual promiscuity become sick or die (1 Cor. 11:30). These sins pervert the basic family unit, the sanctity of marriage (which is a type of our union with Christ), and God's plan for human reproduction. That is why God has judged sexual sin in such a harsh manner. The Law called for death not only for homosexuals, but also for those who engaged in adultery and bestiality. So you see, it is not just a homosexual thing. But the reality is that the homosexual agenda is being forced on society and used to marginalize the Church.

As far as sins such as laziness, dishonesty, and gluttony et. al; these sins have their own natural consequences. Lazy people tend to be in poverty; dishonest people can run into legal troubles; gluttonous people can wind up with poor health. It is not like they are getting off the hook. And while these sins are certainly sufficient to condemn a person, they do not present the threat that sexual perversion does.

 

[Iconoclast]

James,

All sin is sufficient to condemn (Rom. 3:23; 6;23a), but not all sins are the same. There is a reason why God rained fire and brimstone on Sodom (Gen. 19). There is a reason that God brings physical affliction against homosexuals (Rom. 1). There is reason why God bound "angels who did not keep their own domain" (Jude 1). There is a reason why some who engage in sexual promiscuity become sick or die (1 Cor. 11:30). These sins pervert the basic family unit, the sanctity of marriage (which is a type of our union with Christ), and God's plan for human reproduction. That is why God has judged sexual sin in such a harsh manner. The Law called for death not only for homosexuals, but also for those who engaged in adultery and bestiality. So you see, it is not just a homosexual thing. But the reality is that the homosexual agenda is being forced on society and used to marginalize the Church.

As far as sins such as laziness, dishonesty, and gluttony et. al; these sins have their own natural consequences. Lazy people tend to be in poverty; dishonest people can run into legal troubles; gluttonous people can wind up with poor health. It is not like they are getting off the hook. And while these sins are certainly sufficient to condemn a person, they do not present the threat that sexual perversion does.

Reformed,

Another well thought out post.The church has to uphold this standard before the world by our lives as well as out teaching and belief.
failing to do this opens the floodgates even more than they are and invites the judgement of God.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Fools read the Bible and make one sin greater than any other. Such is folly, and a misreading of God's word.

God calls all unrighteous, without calling any "more unrighteous" than any other, in warning that all sin will keep the unbeliever out of heaven.

1 Corinthians 6, NASB
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.​

Those who want to claim that God singles out homosexuality for special punishment, ridicule, or classification need to note that among the first four sins mentioned in that passage, two are heterosexual sin, before Paul ever gets to naming homosexuality. Also listed there, obviously, are theft, coveting, drunkenness, cheaters, idolators as well as the sexual sins of homosexuality, adultery and fornication. Homosexuality receives no special attention. All separate a man or woman from God.

Also note that Paul goes on to say in v. 11 that some of those to whom he wrote were guilty of any or all of those sins, but they were "washed ... sanctified ... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" and were therefore forgiven. We make no error in portraying homosexuality as the vile sin it is but no more vile than any of the other sexual sins, nor murder, nor theft, nor others that violate the person and property of others. The error is the views expressed here making it more than it is. All sin creates division and separation from God. Homosexuality is one such sin. Among many. We are to condemn all sin but love those who live in it, for the purpose of helping the Holy Spirit draw them to Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Fools read the Bible and make one sin greater than any other. Such is folly, and a misreading of God's word.

God calls all unrighteous, without calling any "more unrighteous" than any other, in warning that all sin will keep the unbeliever out of heaven.

1 Corinthians 6, NASB
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.​

Those who want to claim that God singles out homosexuality for special punishment, ridicule, or classification need to note that among the first four sins mentioned in that passage, two are heterosexual sin, before Paul ever gets to naming homosexuality. Also listed there, obviously, are theft, coveting, drunkenness, cheaters, idolators and the sexual sins of adultery and fornication. Homosexuality receives no special attention. All separate a man or woman from God.

Also note that Paul goes on to say in v. 11 that some of those to whom he wrote were guilty of any or all of those sins, but they were "washed ... sanctified ... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" and were therefore forgiven. We make no error in portraying homosexuality as the vile sin it is but no more so than any other. The error is the views expressed here making it more than it is. All sin creates division and separation from God. Homosexuality is one such sin. Among many. We are to condemn all sin but love those who live in it, for the purpose of helping the Holy Spirit draw them to Christ.

Count me then as a fool, as I have jesus/paul and Jude also in my company!

Sins as regarding getting one to hell, etrnally lost, that is true all sins are equal in that sense, as just ONE if any of them means God must judge us as to heaven/Hell status, but in this life, there ARE degrees of sinning, as active homosexuality is among MOST grevious sins that one can do, as God does judge behaviors and sins dione while here on varying levels!

Do you see stealing a pencil from work equal to degrees as raping/killing another then?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Do you see stealing a pencil from work equal to degrees as raping/killing another then?

Do you see homosexual sin as greater than that? Can one be forgiven for rape and murder? Is it singled out for special punishment, more so than rape or murder? Tell me, Yeshua, how two people in a consensual sexual relationship, even though it is great sin in the eyes of God, is greater sin than rape and murder. Answer those questions, if you can.

 

[JamesL]

Count me then as a fool, as I have jesus/paul and Jude also in my company!

Sins as regarding getting one to hell, etrnally lost, that is true all sins are equal in that sense, as just ONE if any of them means God must judge us as to heaven/Hell status, but in this life, there ARE degrees of sinning, as active homosexuality is among MOST grevious sins that one can do, as God does judge behaviors and sins dione while here on varying levels!

Do you see stealing a pencil from work equal to degrees as raping/killing another then?

Your example of a believer stealing a pencil, and speaking of homosexuality as one of the most grievous things WE can do, are categorically foreign to the discussion.

Most every Christian who has taken up the proverbial sword against homosexuals will, in no uncertain terms, deem the homosexual as an unbeliever.

It is said that Christians simply don't do those things, and the gay man is excluded from grace unless he puts away that particular sin.

There was a thread concerning a hypothetical man who might show up at church in a dress. One poster said he would tell the man not to come back until he looked like a man.

But how many fat preachers are told not to come back until they've gone on a diet and lost 80 lbs so they don't look like a glutton anymore?

And I will keep throwing around the gluttony issue, because it has been proven statistically that Christians, and Baptists in particular, are the heaviest people in the United States, per capita.

I'm not advocating excluding the glutton from grace, not at all. Just trying to note that many gluttons have been accepted as ok, while someone with a variant fleshly perversion have been deemed unworthy.

It's downright hypocritical

 

[JamesL]

....

Also note that Paul goes on to say in v. 11 that some of those to whom he wrote were guilty of any or all of those sins, but they were "washed ... sanctified ... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" and were therefore forgiven. We make no error in portraying homosexuality as the vile sin it is but no more vile than any of the other sexual sins, nor murder, nor theft, nor others that violate the person and property of others. The error is the views expressed here making it more than it is. All sin creates division and separation from God. Homosexuality is one such sin. Among many. We are to condemn all sin but love those who live in it, for the purpose of helping the Holy Spirit draw them to Christ.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Excellent !!!

Good stuff.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your example of a believer stealing a pencil, and speaking of homosexuality as one of the most grievous things WE can do, are categorically foreign to the discussion.

Most every Christian who has taken up the proverbial sword against homosexuals will, in no uncertain terms, deem the homosexual as an unbeliever.

It is said that Christians simply don't do those things, and the gay man is excluded from grace unless he puts away that particular sin.

There was a thread concerning a hypothetical man who might show up at church in a dress. One poster said he would tell the man not to come back until he looked like a man.

But how many fat preachers are told not to come back until they've gone on a diet and lost 80 lbs so they don't look like a glutton anymore?

And I will keep throwing around the gluttony issue, because it has been proven statistically that Christians, and Baptists in particular, are the heaviest people in the United States, per capita.

I'm not advocating excluding the glutton from grace, not at all. Just trying to note that many gluttons have been accepted as ok, while someone with a variant fleshly perversion have been deemed unworthy.

It's downright hypocritical

Don't you realise that satan has gotten large segments of christianity today, entire deminations/churches/pastors who no longer view Homosexuality as sinful living, but that once savedm God excuses it, and even give their approval to honoring it with weddings and acknowledgements?

When was last time you heard pstor being ordain as active raptist/fornicator etc, but will be now, and have their married partner right there on stage with them!

 

[JamesL]

Don't you realise that satan has gotten large segments of christianity today, entire deminations/churches/pastors who no longer view Homosexuality as sinful living, but that once savedm God excuses it, and even give their approval to honoring it with weddings and acknowledgements?

When was last time you heard pstor being ordain as active raptist/fornicator etc, but will be now, and have their married partner right there on stage with them!

I absolutely realize that some have been dragged into a ditch, now considering homosexuality as normal functioning behavior. They'll say there's nothing wrong with him, and that he was born that way.

Well, on one account, they're right. He was born that way. EVERYONE was born with perverted desires of the flesh. Sin entered the world through Adam, and people have been dying every day since, because of sinful flesh begetting sinful flesh.

Where they err is in their warped thinking that nothing is wrong with sinful flesh.

But the other side errs just as greatly by refusing to acknowledge the gravity of their own perverted fleshly desires.

Some men are attracted to sleeping with other men, while some are overly attracted to Twinkies.

Each one is saying, "God made me this way."

Well, each one is refusing to acknowledge that ADAM made them that way, there's nothing normal about either one, and that each one is guilty of indulging in perversion

 

[Yeshua1]

I absolutely realize that some have been dragged into a ditch, now considering homosexuality as normal functioning behavior. They'll say there's nothing wrong with him, and that he was born that way.

Well, on one account, they're right. He was born that way. EVERYONE was born with perverted desires of the flesh. Sin entered the world through Adam, and people have been dying every day since, because of sinful flesh begetting sinful flesh.

Where they err is in their warped thinking that nothing is wrong with sinful flesh.

But the other side errs just as greatly by refusing to acknowledge the gravity of their own perverted fleshly desires.

Some men are attracted to sleeping with other men, while some are overly attracted to Twinkies.

Each one is saying, "God made me this way."

Well, each one is refusing to acknowledge that ADAM made them that way, there's nothing normal about either one, and that each one is guilty of indulging in perversion

No ONE born "that way", and my main problem is with those who profess jesus saved them, yet refuse to repent and change lifestyle, think OK now since saved, and really bad when christian excuse/allow for that and stuff like gay weddings! gay pastors!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you see homosexual sin as greater than that? Can one be forgiven for rape and murder? Is it singled out for special punishment, more so than rape or murder? Tell me, Yeshua, how two people in a consensual sexual relationship, even though it is great sin in the eyes of God, is greater sin than rape and murder. Answer those questions, if you can.

Would say that sexual sins are a special case IF Chrsitian, as we are inviting jesus to partake between the 2 of us now in that illecit act!

and no, homosexual sex not greater thanrape.murder, but real issue is that christianity seems to be really lowering standards on it as sin, and that many who cliam salvation denying they even need to change, as pastors/churches affirm their relationships and sexuality!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Would say that sexual sins are a special case IF Chrsitian, as we are inviting jesus to partake between the 2 of us now in that illecit act!

We drag Jesus along for the ride with every single sin we commit, be it sexual sin, or lying, theft, gluttony, gossip, pride, addiction, assault, murder. Homosexual sin is no more a "special case" than any of those.

and no, homosexual sex not greater thanrape.murder, but real issue is that christianity seems to be really lowering standards on it as sin, and that many who cliam salvation denying they even need to change, as pastors/churches affirm their relationships and sexuality!

Let me say this just once, with clarity.

The first thing I want to address is subject matter:

• This thread is not about churches that affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• This thread is not about pastors who affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• This thread is not about Christians who affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• No one on this thread affirms homosexual behavior.
• No one on this thread believes homosexual behavior and/or lifestyles are anything other than sin.
• No one this thread denies the right of a Christian to refuse to fellowship, associate, or even do business with a person engaged in homosexual behaviors/lifestyles.

Stop talking about those subjects because they are irrelevant.

The second thing I want to address is people:

• Many on this thread likely live in sin they deny needs to be addressed, yet they remain saved.
• Many on this thread exhibit outright hatred for certain types of sin and sinners while living in their own sin without thought of consequence.
• Many on this thread utterly fail to reason logically due to an emotionalism about homosexual behaviors and lifestyles, and as a result disqualify themselves from being able to express rational thoughts about it and how Christians should respond.

Stop being one of those people, because you invalidate your opinion with emotionalism that ignores your responsibilities as a Christian.

 

[Yeshua1]

We drag Jesus along for the ride with every single sin we commit, be it sexual sin, or lying, theft, gluttony, gossip, pride, addiction, assault, murder. Homosexual sin is no more a "special case" than any of those.Let me say this just once, with clarity.

The first thing I want to address is subject matter:

• This thread is not about churches that affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• This thread is not about pastors who affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• This thread is not about Christians who affirm homosexual behavior or lifestyle.
• No one on this thread affirms homosexual behavior.
• No one on this thread believes homosexual behavior and/or lifestyles are anything other than sin.
• No one this thread denies the right of a Christian to refuse to fellowship, associate, or even do business with a person engaged in homosexual behaviors/lifestyles.

Stop talking about those subjects because they are irrelevant.

The second thing I want to address is people:

• Many on this thread likely live in sin they deny needs to be addressed, yet they remain saved.
• Many on this thread exhibit outright hatred for certain types of sin and sinners while living in their own sin without thought of consequence.
• Many on this thread utterly fail to reason logically due to an emotionalism about homosexual behaviors and lifestyles, and as a result disqualify themselves from being able to express rational thoughts about it and how Christians should respond.

Stop being one of those people, because you invalidate your opinion with emotionalism that ignores your responsibilities as a Christian.

So you would agree then, based upon that list, that Christians businesses have the right to refuse to conduct business with homosexuals at ceremonies such as gay pride parades, gay weddings, gay ordination etc?

That Is ALL the Az law meant to keep intact!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So you would agree then, based upon that list, that Christians businesses have the right to refuse to conduct business with homosexuals at ceremonies such as gay pride parades, gay weddings, gay ordination etc?

That Is ALL the Az law meant to keep intact!

Off topic for this thread. Go here. Hint: You're wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Off topic for this thread. Go here. Hint: You're wrong.

Well, bill of rights number uno states that I am not!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Well, bill of rights number uno states that I am not!

First Amendment rights are not abridged by Fourteenth Amendment rights.

The laws didn't say anything about First Amendment rights.

The laws were designed to circumvent the Constitution.

Hence, I told you you don't know what you're talking about, and if you hold to that comment, you still don't.

 

[Yeshua1]

First Amendment rights are not abridged by Fourteenth Amendment rights.

The laws didn't say anything about First Amendment rights.

The laws were designed to circumvent the Constitution.

Hence, I told you you don't know what you're talking about, and if you hold to that comment, you still don't.

And so the chriatians of NM spoke and thought as you do, and their rights went?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

And so the chriatians of NM spoke and thought as you do, and their rights went?

1. It was Arizona.
2. They already have legal protection to deny service.

 

[Yeshua1]

1. It was Arizona.
2. They already have legal protection to deny service.

except the Stae ruled that they do not in this case brought bewfore court regarding rich gay couple forcing Chrsitian florists to do their service!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

except the Stae ruled that they do not in this case brought bewfore court regarding rich gay couple forcing Chrsitian florists to do their service!

It has been stated numerous times that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 affords anyone the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as they don't cite their reason as being directed at the sociopolitical group to which the one refused service belongs! That has been said 50 times if its been said once, and yet you ignorantly insist that the failure of Arizona and Kansas to pass these laws "denies Christians the right to refuse service"!! I know you have trouble expressing yourself in English, but if you're having that much trouble understanding the language, I suggest you get off this board!

This is at least the third time in a week you have made some idiotic statement like this when you are responding to a post that proves the diametric opposite of what you are saying!

Great googly-moogly!